02-05-2004, 23:24 | ||
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03-05-2004, 00:14 | |
Ik wil wel eens weten wie deze gevangenen zijn. (zonder plastic zak op hun hoofd) Als het dezelfde Saddam-loyalisten zijn die je op onderstaande video onschuldige jongens ziet afranselen, dan verdienen ze nog erger dan wat de Amerikanen met hun hebben gedaan.
http://www.sotaliraq.com/prisoners-abuse.html (schokkende beelden) |
03-05-2004, 00:23 | ||
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03-05-2004, 00:44 | ||
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Ik keur natuurlijk niet goed wat de Amerikanen hebben gedaan, maar wij weten niet onder welke omstandigheden dit voorval heeft plaatsgevonden. Misschien hebben deze gevangenen, Amerikaanse soldaten vermoord of geprobeerd te vermoorden en nemen de Amerikanen op deze manier wraak. Je moet echt iets heel ergs hebben begaan, wil je als Irakees in de "Abu-Ghraib" gevangenis" terechtkomen. Vooral omdat in deze gevangenis vroeger duizenden onschuldige Irakezen werden gemarteld en vermoord, is deze gevangenis nu speciaal voor de Saddam-loyalisten bestemd. |
03-05-2004, 00:48 | ||
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03-05-2004, 01:01 | ||
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Ben jij Irakees? |
03-05-2004, 01:20 | ||
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Van wanneer zijn die beelden? Tijdens of na Saddam tijdperk?
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Bureaucracy is the death of any achievement.
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03-05-2004, 01:23 | ||
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Bureaucracy is the death of any achievement.
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03-05-2004, 01:23 | ||
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Bureaucracy is the death of any achievement.
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03-05-2004, 09:21 | ||
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03-05-2004, 11:01 | ||
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Wat gij niet wilt dat u geschiedt, doe dat de ander voor hij 't ziet.
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03-05-2004, 12:53 | ||
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I got a way with words, I use words in ways...
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03-05-2004, 12:56 | ||
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Zeven Amerikanen berispt wegens mishandeling Irakezen Zeven Amerikaanse militairen zijn met een officiële berisping gestraft voor de mishandeling van Iraakse gevangenen in de beruchte Abu Ghraib-gevangenis in Bagdad, heeft een Amerikaanse legerwoordvoerder maandag gezegd. Tegen de zeven worden waarschijnlijk geen verdere stappen genomen. De officiële berispingen betekenen echter vermoedelijk het einde van hun militaire loopbaan. Tegen zes andere leden van de militaire politie loopt nog een strafrechtelijk onderzoek. In de hele wereld is geschokt gereageerd nadat vorige week op de Amerikaanse televisie foto's waren getoond van Iraakse gevangenen die naakt en met kappen op door Amerikaanse militairen worden vernederd. De Amerikaanse opperbevelhebber, generaal Richard Myers, zei zondag dat het niet om stelselmatig misbruik gaat en dat het optreden van enkelen ten onrechte alle Amerikaanse militairen bezoedeld heeft. Amnesty International zegt dat er wel degelijk sprake is van een patroon van foltering van Iraakse gevangenen en eist een onafhankelijk onderzoek. Een voormalige Iraakse gevangene, Dhia al-Shweiri, zegt zich niet over de foto's te hebben verbaasd. Al-Shweiri moest na zijn arrestatie in oktober samen met zes anderen geheel ontkleed, licht voorovergebogen met de handen tegen een muur gaan staan. Ze kwamen ons bekijken terwijl wij zo stonden. Ze wisten dat dit ons zou vernederen. Ze probeerden onze trots te breken (...) Ze wilden ons laten voelen alsof we vrouwen waren (...) dat is de ergste belediging, je als een vrouw voelen. bron: nieuws.nl
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I got a way with words, I use words in ways...
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03-05-2004, 14:30 | ||
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03-05-2004, 14:32 | ||
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In Memoriam: Matthew Shepard(1976-1998)-Wake up, meet reality! mccaine.blogspot.com|geengodengeenmeesters.blogspot.com
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03-05-2004, 15:09 | ||
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Zou wel erg sarcastisch zijn
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Všude dobře doma nejlíp
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03-05-2004, 17:39 | ||
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Bureaucracy is the death of any achievement.
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03-05-2004, 18:12 | ||
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03-05-2004, 18:19 | ||
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03-05-2004, 18:21 | ||
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Moet je dat artikel nou nog btw? |
03-05-2004, 18:39 | ||
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03-05-2004, 20:11 | ||
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"I'm single! I love being single! I haven't had this much sex since I was a Scout leader." - Lt. Frank Drebin, "Naked Gun 2 1/2"
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03-05-2004, 20:27 | ||
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Negatief plus negatief blijft negatief. Twee slechte eigenschappen heffen elkaar helaas niet op. Doorgaans hebben ze cumultatief een versterkend effect.
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So What
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03-05-2004, 20:29 | ||
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"I'm single! I love being single! I haven't had this much sex since I was a Scout leader." - Lt. Frank Drebin, "Naked Gun 2 1/2"
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03-05-2004, 21:40 | |||
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Abu Ghraib was now a U.S. military prison. Most of the prisoners, however—by the fall there were several thousand, including women and teen-agers—were civilians, many of whom had been picked up in random military sweeps and at highway checkpoints. They fell into three loosely defined categories: common criminals; security detainees suspected of “crimes against the coalition”; and a small number of suspected “high-value” leaders of the insurgency against the coalition forces. Citaat:
Paar stukjes: Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee. ... Two Iraqi faces that do appear in the photographs are those of dead men. There is the battered face of prisoner No. 153399, and the bloodied body of another prisoner, wrapped in cellophane and packed in ice. There is a photograph of an empty room, splattered with blood. ... Bobeck also testified that witnesses had said that Frederick, on one occasion, “had punched a detainee in the chest so hard that the detainee almost went into cardiac arrest.” ... In November, Frederick wrote, an Iraqi prisoner under the control of what the Abu Ghraib guards called “O.G.A.,” or other government agencies—that is, the C.I.A. and its paramilitary employees—was brought to his unit for questioning. “They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. They put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. . . . The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV in his arm and took him away.” The dead Iraqi was never entered into the prison’s inmate-control system, Frederick recounted, “and therefore never had a number.” Frederick’s defense is, of course, highly self-serving. But the complaints in his letters and e-mails home were reinforced by two internal Army reports—Taguba’s and one by the Army’s chief law-enforcement officer, Provost Marshal Donald Ryder, a major general. ... The problems inside the Army prison system in Iraq were not hidden from senior commanders. During Karpinski’s seven-month tour of duty, Taguba noted, there were at least a dozen officially reported incidents involving escapes, attempted escapes, and other serious security issues that were investigated by officers of the 800th M.P. Brigade. Some of the incidents had led to the killing or wounding of inmates and M.P.s, and resulted in a series of “lessons learned” inquiries within the brigade. Karpinski invariably approved the reports and signed orders calling for changes in day-to-day procedures. But Taguba found that she did not follow up, doing nothing to insure that the orders were carried out. Had she done so, he added, “cases of abuse may have been prevented.” General Taguba further found that Abu Ghraib was filled beyond capacity, and that the M.P. guard force was significantly undermanned and short of resources. “This imbalance has contributed to the poor living conditions, escapes, and accountability lapses,” he wrote. There were gross differences, Taguba said, between the actual number of prisoners on hand and the number officially recorded. A lack of proper screening also meant that many innocent Iraqis were wrongly being detained—indefinitely, it seemed, in some cases. The Taguba study noted that more than sixty per cent of the civilian inmates at Abu Ghraib were deemed not to be a threat to society, which should have enabled them to be released. Karpinski’s defense, Taguba said, was that her superior officers “routinely” rejected her recommendations regarding the release of such prisoners. ... As the international furor grew, senior military officers, and President Bush, insisted that the actions of a few did not reflect the conduct of the military as a whole. Taguba’s report, however, amounts to an unsparing study of collective wrongdoing and the failure of Army leadership at the highest levels. The picture he draws of Abu Ghraib is one in which Army regulations and the Geneva conventions were routinely violated, and in which much of the day-to-day management of the prisoners was abdicated to Army military-intelligence units and civilian contract employees. Interrogating prisoners and getting intelligence, including by intimidation and torture, was the priority. ... Captain Robert Shuck, Frederick’s military attorney, closed his defense at the Article 32 hearing last month by saying that the Army was “attempting to have these six soldiers atone for its sins.” Similarly, Gary Myers, Frederick’s civilian attorney, told me that he would argue at the court-martial that culpability in the case extended far beyond his client. “I’m going to drag every involved intelligence officer and civilian contractor I can find into court,” he said. “Do you really believe the Army relieved a general officer because of six soldiers? Not a chance.” Bush, ondertussen: A year ago, I did give the speech from the carrier saying that we had achieved an important objective, that we had accomplished a mission, which was the removal of Saddam Hussein. And as a result, there are no longer torture chambers or rape rooms or mass graves in Iraq. gg, idiot.
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Mein Name ist Joachim von Hassel/Ich bin Pilot der Bundeswehr/und sende Ihnen aus meinem Flugzeug/den Funkspruch den niemand hört
Laatst gewijzigd op 03-05-2004 om 21:47. |
03-05-2004, 21:47 | ||
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I got a way with words, I use words in ways...
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03-05-2004, 22:47 | |
Torture commonplace, say inmates' families
Luke Harding at Abu Ghraib prison, near Baghdad, where stories of US guards routinely abusing prisoners come as no surprise to Iraqis Monday May 3, 2004 The Guardian For the families standing in the dusty car park of Abu Ghraib prison yesterday, the revelations of torture and abuse came as no surprise. Every morning, relatives of Iraqi detainees inside the US prison, just west of Baghdad, gather in the hope that their loved ones might be released. They rarely are. The photos of US soldiers abusing and humiliating Iraqi detainees may have provoked outrage across the world. But for Hiyam Abbas they merely confirmed what she already knew - that US guards had tortured her 22-year-old son Hassan. Breaking down in tears, Mrs Abbas said US guards had refused to let her in. She had so far only managed to see Hassan once - two months ago - following his arrest last November. "He told me: 'Mum, they are taking our clothes off. We are nude all the time. They are getting dogs to smell our arses. They are also beating us with cables.' "It's completely humiliating," Mrs Abbas said. "My son is sick and suffering from hypertension. During the interview the American soldiers were standing so close to us. My son was crying." Her son had been detained in the Baghdad suburb of Al-Dora, after a gang broke into their house. What did she think of the Americans now? "They are rubbish," she said. "Saddam Hussein may have oppressed us but he was better than the Americans. They are garbage." Yesterday other Iraqis gave similar accounts of what goes on inside Abu Ghraib, once a centre of torture and execution under Saddam. The US military last week claimed that "no more than 20" US soldiers had been involved in abusing and humiliating inmates. The vast majority of US guards were not involved, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt suggested. Yesterday, however, Abu Salem, who spent six months inside Abu Ghraib between August and February, said abuse by US guards went on all the time. Mr Salem, 41, said he had also known about the practice of US soldiers posing for pictures with Iraqi prisoners for five months. "This didn't take place in the general camp but in individual cells," he said. Naked Mr Salem said he had been in the jail shortly before a visit from the International Red Cross in January. Until then, detainees in the prison wing had been kept naked. "The night before the Red Cross arrived, the American soldiers gave them some new clothes. They told us that if we complained to the Red Cross about our treatment we would be kept in prison forever. They said they would never let us out." Mr Salem said he had come to the jail, a short drive from the town's chaotic vegetable market, to try to find out what had happened to his three brothers. They were still inside the prison, he said, behind its outer fence and a vast razor wire- topped inner wall. Generally, detainees were only tortured in the days immediately after their arrest, during interrogation, he added. Many of the allegations made by Mr Salem and other former detainees yesterday correspond with the damning internal US army report into Abu Ghraib obtained by the Guardian and the New Yorker magazine. Yesterday the mother of one detainee, Samira Hassan, said the latest allegations were horribly familiar. Her 22-year-old son Abbas had been arrested three months ago while walking past a US military base in the Baghdad suburb of Amariya. She finally managed to see him in prison two weeks ago. "He told me they are using electric shocks against the prisoners and taking off their clothes. He also told me something I can hardly talk about - that the Americans are raping the Iraqi men. "This is terrible," Mrs Hassan said. "This is shame for us. We have a different culture and different religion. They should not do that. "We are not talking about one case but of thousands of cases," she said. "The Americans said they would bring us freedom. Is this what they mean?" Not all the detainees inside Abu Ghraib were young men, it emerged yesterday, or even very plausible resistance fighters. Several relatives wearing flowing white dish-dashes had turned up to try to visit Qahta al-Salim, a prominent 70-year-old sheikh from the Sunni town of Samarra. Mr al-Salim had been in American custody for four months, his son, Mutashar Qahtan, said. US soldiers arrested him at his home after a neighbour claimed he supported the resistance. "My father is an old man. He has a heart complaint. The first thing they did was to make him stand up for 12 hours," he complained. "They then took him to Tikrit and finally to here." Mr Qahtan said the allegations of abuse by US soldiers were "nothing new". He said he spent 47 days last year in US custody in Tikrit. "Personally they didn't do anything wrong to me," he said. "But I saw for myself what they did to others. They forced a group of prisoners to stand naked on the roof for seven days. They also told us that all Iraqis were shit." There are around 8,000 Iraqi prisoners in US custody, held in camps across Iraq without trial or access to a lawyer. A tiny minority of those detained are high-ranking members of the former regime. Victims Relatives, however, insist that the majority of "security detainees" are innocent, and claim they are often victims of random arrest following attacks on coalition forces. Either way, the images of torture and humiliation would merely serve to fuel the armed struggle against US occupation, Majid al-Salim, the brother of the imprisoned sheikh, said. "The Americans are driving people into the arms of the Maqawama [resistance]," he said. "We now look back at Saddam's era with nostalgia," he added. "He was a good leader. There was security. We hope he comes back." http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...208408,00.html
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I got a way with words, I use words in ways...
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03-05-2004, 23:37 | |
All the talk in the media about the treatment of Iraqi prisoners and the rape of Iraqi women has me remembering my days in the U.S. Marine Corps.
A couple things in particular struck me. Number one, the idea that the U.S. military is a "value-based organization". And the second thing being that the people who did what has been reported and photographed to the Iraqi prisoners were only a small deviant minority and in no way are representative of the majority of the military. Back during my first year in the USMC, one thing stuck out in my mind that relates directly to the above topics. In all of our training, be it Boot Camp, Infantry School, or on-going regular unit training, we were taught two things in particular. Number one, we were taught to be extremely aggressive on command. The level of aggression taught is unprecedented in "civil" society where only the most violent criminals display the level expected from U.S. Marines. And second, we were taught to be smart while we were being aggressive. This latter teaching involved overcoming our own normal fears and instinctive reactions so that we could more efficiently channel our aggresion towards killing the enemy while sustaining minimal casualties ourselves. These two things combined make a truly deadly combination, even without "modern" weapons. Sometime during our initial training, we were schooled in how to behave generally. We were told morals. We were told how to be "honorable" and "just". But what stuck out was that I could see that what we were being told about these things did not fit well at all with the aggression and the killing smarts that we were being taught elsewhere in our training. And probably you can guess where the emphasis lay. On one hand we should be deadly and savage killing machines, and on the other hand we should be polite, honorable, and reserved. Clearly these two worlds do not match. And the one that was tied to survival and "winning" would surely be the one that would "win out" over the other. This was particularly clear to me when I spent about a year on a USMC base in Okinawa, Japan. You've probably all heard about the problems they've had with rapes and assaults on Japanese Nationals in Okinawa from U.S. servicemen. I watched myself and the other men in my unit as we trained hard on how to best kill the enemy, and then in the evenings we went out into town and were expected to behave like civil gentleman and treat others as human beings. Often I was shocked at the irony of the situation. The ONLY thing that deterred us from being MORE aggressive in town was the fact that the Japanese Police were as tough as we were and they had weapons and were allowed by law to use any amount of force they wanted to. In Boot Camp, we were subjected to a great many humiliating experiences, including doing things in the nude. These things were a part of the brainwashing techniques applied to the recruits and also included things like sleep deprivation and severe stress. Please note, THESE THINGS WERE DONE TO RECRUITS! It is only natural that some of us would go on to use some of those same techniques on others, including on other Marines. To say that members of the military who do these things to others only represents a small number of deviants is hogwash. We were all TAUGHT these things by having them done to us! And not only were we taught to do these kinds of things, in many cases we were encouraged, sometimes even by tradition. For instance, when an enlisted man gained rank, all other enlisted men of the same rank or higher in the unit were expected to abuse the newly promoted man in a certain way. For E-3 and E-2, we were to be punched in each shoulder. I became a Lance Corporal (E-3) while in Okinawa in a unit of about forty enlisted men with all but about a half dozen of them E- 3 or above. More than thirty Marines literally lined up in a double row while I walked down the middle and stood still while two of them punched me in the shoulder at the same time, one on each side. I have pictures of the bruises that literally wrapped around the top of my arms 360 degrees! And most men considered these bruises marks of honor! I couldn't move my arms for a week. When a Marine was promoted to Corporal (E-4), then not only was the shoulder punched, but the sides of the knees were kicked, too. It was normal for many newly promoted corporals to spend a week or two in the hospital right after being promoted. When I gained the rank of Corporal three months before leaving the USMC, I was willing to fight to keep from getting hit or kicked and so they mostly left me alone. To further demonstrate the point, I would like to relate something graphic that was a weekly ritual for awhile in my last unit. Every week we went to the armory and checked out our weapons and cleaned them. During my first several months in this particular unit, there was a group of Marines in the unit who had been with each other for quite some time. I was a part of an influx of newer members to the unit and most all of us "newbies" were of less rank than the other guys and we had not formed a close bond with anyone else like the "older" ones had with each other. We would all take our weapons outside into a fenced-in area around the armory and disassemble them on wooden tables and clean them for an hour or more. During this time, the "older" guys decided it would be fun to humiliate the "newbies". Two of them would sneak up to one of us and hold the person bent over and prone across the table. A third Marine would run up and pretend to have sex with the held down Marine. After witnessing this behavior, I was mortified, to say the least. I did NOT want it to happen to me for obvious reasons. But there wasn't much we could do about it. Our leaders didn't care and considered it just "play" among the troops. I managed to avoid being targeted because I pretended to the perpetrators that I might actually enjoy it and for some reason that bothered them so they avoided me. To make a long story longer, what I have said above is only the tip of the ice berg. I could go on for pages and pages and I was only a Marine for four years. Now consider that these were things that we did to EACH OTHER! And on a regular, EVERYDAY basis! These were not "isolated incidents" among a few deviants. These are the "values" that we put into practice on an organization-wide scale. This is the "inside story" behind all the flag waving and heroic tales of courage and valor. This is the real military man behind the red, white, and blue embroidered curtain. THESE are the people who are now handing out "freedom" and "liberation" and "democracy". Now taking this all into account, just imagine for a minute what would happen with servicemen who had almost absolute power over a group of prisoners, people who are "foreigners" and considered enemies. Remember, military members are taught to kill enemies which means that enemies must be faceless lumps of flesh to be shot at, they are not real human beings. If the servicemen were trained to abuse each other who they saw as "brothers-in-arms", just imagine how they would treat those who were seen as foreigners and enemies and who they had real power over. It is truly chilling to consider. And with all the new reports, we don't even have to imagine anymore.
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Courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.
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04-05-2004, 05:26 | ||
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04-05-2004, 07:51 | ||
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04-05-2004, 08:58 | |
Wat ik hiervan vind...op zich niet zo vreemd, het is makkelijk voor te stellen dat mensen die constant oorlog, dood en mishandeling om zich heen zien, daaraan wennen, haat beginnen te voelen tegenover "de vijand", zij denken niet meer helemaal helder. Maar het gevaar is, dat mensen gaan generaliseren: "Zie je wel, Amerikanen doen daar helemaal niet iets goeds!" Want het gaat om een incident. Natuurlijk moeten de betreffende Amerikanen hard worden aangepakt, maar waarom moet dat een gevangenisstraf zijn? Ze zijn getraumatiseerd, ze moeten leren weer in een normale samenleving te passen, TBS oid krijgen.
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There is nothing real outside our perception of reality, is there?
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04-05-2004, 09:24 | ||
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2) Wat wil je daarmee zeggen?
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Gatara was here! De W van stampot!
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04-05-2004, 10:07 | ||
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04-05-2004, 10:09 | ||
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Bureaucracy is the death of any achievement.
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04-05-2004, 10:12 | ||
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04-05-2004, 10:26 | ||
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Bureaucracy is the death of any achievement.
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04-05-2004, 10:29 | ||
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