De UK krijgt een nieuw kiesstelsel!

[Joostje]

De Conservatieven en Labour proberen allebei een regering te vormen in het Verenigd Koninkrijk, maar hebben daarbij de steun nodig van de LiberaalDemocraten. Om hen over te halen, hebben beide grote partijen aangeboden een referendum te laten houden over het kiesstelsel.

Het VK heeft op dit moment een kiesstelsel dat uigaat van kiesdistricten waar de grootste partij (niet een meerderheid dus noodzakelijk; slechts degene die de meer stemmen heeft dan de rest) een zetel verdient in het parlement. Dit is nadelig voor kleinere landelijke partijen (wel prettig voor lokaal sterke partijen), omdat deze partijen vaan tweede of derde worden in zo een district en daarom veel van hun stemmen verloren zien gaan. In de toekomst wil men waarschijnlijk stappen naar een Single Transferable Votes. Dit houdt in dat mensen niet slechts een stem kunnen uitbrengen, maar een ranglijst kunnen maken wie ze de beste / slechtste politicus vinden. Ook wordt hiermee het districtenstelsel afgeschaft. Ierland heeft een gelijk kiesstelsel.
Labour en de Tories (conservatieven dus) willen graag een ander stelsel: Alternative voting. Dit houdt in dat mensen wel een ranglijst kunnen maken voor hun stem, maar dat de districtne gehandhaafd blijven; Echter; hier wordt men pas afgevaardigd als men meer dan 50% van de stemmen heeft (tegenover simpelweg "de meeste stemmen" nu). Ook wordt telkens gekeken naar wie de minste stemmen heeft, en worden die stemmen overgedragen aan de persoon die onder hen in de ranglijst van de kiezer staat, totdat eindelijk iemand over de 50% is. Dit wordt ook in Australie gedaan, geloof ik.

Wat vinden jullie hiervan? Moeten we ons kiesstelsel ook aanpassen?


Hung parliament: Tories' 'final offer' on vote reform

William Hague: "We will offer... a referendum on the alternative vote system"

The Conservatives have made a "final offer" to the Lib Dems of a referendum on electoral reform as the battle to form the UK's next government heats up.

Tory deputy leader William Hague said he would offer Nick Clegg's party a vote on the Alternative Vote system.

It comes after Gordon Brown, who said he was standing down as Labour leader, offered to put AV into law with a referendum for voters to approve it.

The Lib Dems must now decide which party they want to back.


In the interests of trying to create a stable, secure government we will go the extra mile and we will offer to the Liberal Democrats, in a coalition government, the holding of a referendum on the Alternative Vote system, so that the people of this country can decide
William Hague
Shadow foreign secretary

Q&A: Alternative voting systems

Speaking outside the House of Commons, Mr Hague urged the Lib Dems to accept the Tory deal, arguing that to join with Labour would mean "a second unelected prime minister in a row" and the imposition of voting reform without first consulting the public in a referendum.

This was later denied by Labour sources, who said they would pass a law on AV immediately, but then hold a referendum to allow voters to approve or reject it. There were also unconfirmed reports Labour was offering the prospect of full proportional representation at a later stage.

Mr Hague said a deal with the Tories was the only way to guarantee the "strong, stable government" the Lib Dems say they want, as it would give the two parties a "secure Parliamentary majority of 76".

Referendum

Labour would have to band together with other parties such as the Scottish Nationalists, Plaid Cymru, the Green Party and the SDLP in order to guarantee a working majority.


BROWN TO STAND DOWN
Gordon Brown
Tory 'final offer' on vote reform
Q&A: Brown's decision to quit
Gordon Brown's rise and fall
Labour leader: Runners and riders
In quotes: Resignation reaction
In pictures: Gordon Brown

The Conservatives are also understood to be offering the Lib Dems fixed-term Parliaments.

Mr Hague said the focus of Conservative negotiations with the Lib Dems, which have been going on for three days since the general election ended with no clear winner, has been on the economy.

The Conservatives have long been opposed to a referendum on electoral reform but in his statement Mr Hague said: "In the interests of trying to create a stable, secure government we will go the extra mile and we will offer to the Liberal Democrats, in a coalition government, the holding of a referendum on the Alternative Vote system, so that the people of this country can decide."


POSSIBLE OUTCOMES
Tory-Lib Dem coalition forms government with working majority
Labour-Lib Dem coalition forms government but has to rely on support of smaller parties such as SNP and Plaid Cymru
Conservative minority government, if Lib Dems fail to reach deal with them or Labour

Mr Hague warned it would be a "great mistake" for the Lib Dems to do a deal with Labour given their "apparent attachment to improving democracy".

He said: "It would be wrong to construct a government, which wouldn't be stable, which wouldn't have a prime minister elected by the people of this country and wouldn't be submitting a major constitutional change to a referendum of the country."

Full coalition

Mr Hague said that in a possible referendum, Conservative MPs opposed to change in the voting system would be "at liberty" to campaign against it.

Shadow chancellor George Osborne said a weak coalition struggling to achieve a Parliamentary majority was "not in the national interest".

"The Liberal Democrats want to change our voting system and we are making that offer.

"So the parliamentary party, in the extraordinary meeting where we genuinely consulted them following a meeting of the shadow cabinet, has pretty much to a person - I can't think of a single person who objected - endorsed the position set out and agrees to make this offer now to the Liberal Democrats as a final offer."

Conservative sources have told the BBC that on Monday morning the Conservative and Liberal Democrat teams were discussing a stripped-down deal in which the Lib Dems would not topple the Tories in a confidence vote.

It is now understood the Lib Dems are seeking a full coalition with either Labour or the Conservatives.

There are no plans at the moment for Tory negotiators to resume their talks with the Lib Dems, the BBC understands.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/p...10/8673807.stm



Q&A: Calls to change the UK election voting system

Ballot paper

Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg has always said electoral reform would be a key point of negotiation in a hung parliament. Here is a guide to the issue:

What is the current system?

For Westminster elections, it's first-past-the-post - the candidate who gets the most votes in their constituency is elected as the MP. If one party gets an overall majority - more MPs than all the other parties put together - they form the government. If no party gets an overall majority it is called a hung parliament and two or more parties would be expected to work together to form a government. You can read more in our general election FAQs.

How different systems work
First-past-the-post
Alternative vote
Single transferable vote
First-past-the-post What happened in 2010 In the current system, people get a single vote for who they want to represent their constituency and whichever candidate gets the most votes wins.

UK use: Election to Westminster and local government in England and Wales.
Alternative vote Applied 2010 result Voters rank the candidates. If no candidate has 50% of first preferences then second preferences are counted and so on until someone has a majority.

UK use: By-elections to Northern Ireland Assembly.
Single transferable vote Applied 2010 result Several constituencies are combined and voters rank the candidates. Members are elected once they pass a certain number of votes, known as a quota.

UK use: Used in Northern Ireland for elections to Assembly, European Parliament and local government. Also used for local elections in Scotland.
Source: Electoral Reform Society


Why do the Lib Dems want the voting system changed?

They see it as unfair, saying first-past-the-post discriminates against smaller parties. Despite getting 22% of the vote in 2005, the Lib Dems only won 9% of seats. Reformers say too many votes are effectively wasted in safe seats where either Labour or Conservatives have large, in-built majorities, and this depresses turnout. Results, they say, increasingly hinge on the preferences of a small number of voters in a handful of swing constituencies which is undemocratic.

What do they propose?

The Lib Dems support the Single Transferable Vote (STV) system. They say this will give people "the choice between candidates as well as parties".

How does STV work?

Instead of marking an X against just one candidate, the voter puts a 1 for their first choice, a 2 for their second, and so on. If a voter's number one choice reaches or exceeds a certain number of votes (known as the quota), they are elected. If the winning candidate received more votes than the quota, then the excess votes are transferred proportionately to other candidates based on the choices of those who voted for the winner. If no candidate in the second round meets the quota, then the candidate with the least votes is eliminated. The second preference votes of those who voted for that candidate are transferred to the next round. These transfers and eliminations continue until the number of candidates meeting the vote threshold is the same as the number of seats to be filled.

What else is different in the STV system?

It would mean the end to the current single-member constituencies for Westminster elections (you can find yours by clicking here). STV is designed for large, regional multi-member constituencies. According to one study, rural constituencies would become much larger, while some cities could see constituencies with electorates of 350,000 people. Parties would be able to field more than one candidate in each constituency - meaning a voter could vote for both the candidate and the party they prefer.

So Labour don't want STV?

They may not want STV, but they are quite keen on a different system known as the Alternative Vote (AV). It is in Labour's 2010 manifesto, and the party is committed to holding a referendum on electoral reform by October 2011 - if they win the general election.

How is it different?

AV sees voters rank candidates in order of preference and anyone getting more than 50% in the first round is elected. If that doesn't happen, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated and their second choices allocated to the remaining candidates. This process continues until a winner emerges.

Why would that be seen as fairer?

Under the current system, many MPs are elected on a minority of the overall vote in their constituency. Under the AV system MPs could not be elected without the backing of at least 50% of voters in a constituency. This would increase the legitimacy of MPs - seen as an important factor in the wake of the MP expenses scandal - and increase choice.
Would AV have changed history?

Is this proportional representation?

No. Parties could still form a government with less than 50% of first choice votes. Campaigners such as the Electoral Reform Society and the Liberal Democrats want a proportional system where the number of seats a party wins is more closely aligned with the number of votes they get.

Why are Labour now into electoral reform?

The party will say it has been committed to reform since the 1997 manifesto which pledged them to "recommend a proportional alternative to the first-past-the-post system". However, while alternatives to first-past-the-post have been introduced for elections to the devolved administrations, the European Parliament and London Assembly, changing the system for Westminster elections has yet to happen. It wasn't until after the MPs' expenses scandal that Gordon Brown put forward the case for change. The government tried to introduce legislation that would require a referendum to be held by October 2011 in the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill. However, this was dropped from the bill during the pre-election rush to get stuff through Parliament because of Conservative opposition.

Is Labour's backing for AV enough to get the Lib Dems' support?

In some ways yes, in some ways no. The Lib Dems argue that AV is not proportional, and can actually produce less proportional results than the traditional first-past-the-post system. However, they say Labour's backing for AV is "a small step in the right direction", and supported the proposed referendum on voting reform. In an added twist, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said in an interview in March that they would support an enhanced version of the Alternative Vote - known as AV+.

What's the plus for?

AV+ is the Alternative Vote as outlined above, but as well as voters ranking constituency candidates in order of preference, they would get a second vote at a regional level either for a party or for their favourite candidate from a list proposed by the parties. This would mean having a group of constituency MPs and a group of "party list" MPs. Some commentators think having two different kinds of MP is a disadvantage of this system. It is also not used anywhere in the UK at the moment. Its supporters say AV+ is more reflective of the proportions of votes cast, and retains the MP-constituency links of first-past-the-post.

What if the Conservatives win the general election?

David Cameron recently said of proportional representation: "It doesn't put power in the hands of the people, it puts power in the hands of politicians." He added that first-past-the-post "is a decisive way of changing our government." It looks unlikely that the Tories will hold a referendum on electoral change.

How does the electoral system work in Scotland and Wales?

Voting for the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly is done through what is known as an additional member system. Some representatives are elected via the traditional first past the post method but voters get to cast a second vote for "top-up" seats, allocated in proportion to the number of votes. These representatives are selected on a regional basis from lists of candidates drawn up by each party - with five regions in Wales and eight in Scotland.

What about Northern Ireland?

In Northern Ireland local and Assembly elections (and Scottish local elections), voting is done on a single transferable vote basis which sees more than one candidate elected from a single constituency. Voters number candidates in order of preference and all those passing a defined threshold - calculated by dividing the number of valid votes by the number of seats plus one - are elected. Their surplus votes are distributed to other candidates on the basis of other preferences with low-scoring candidates being progressively eliminated.

What about mayoral elections?

The Mayor of London and other UK mayors are elected through a system known as the supplementary vote. Voters choose their first and second preferences and a candidate can only be elected in the first round if they get 50% of the vote. If no-one achieves this, all but the top two candidates are eliminated and their second preferences redistributed to the candidates still in the race. The candidate with the most votes is then elected. This is only suitable for electing a single office holder or MP.

How do they do things in the European Elections?

Voters in the recent European elections used a party list system. The UK was divided into large constituencies and different parties put together lists of candidates for election, with their preferred choices at the top. Seats were allocated, on a top-down basis, in proportion to parties' share of the vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/p...10/8644480.stm

[Kitten]

Ik snap niet dat ze in moderne tijden niet gewoon landelijk stemmen kunnen tellen voor het parlement en dit om zetten naar zetels. Vroeger was het misschien nuttig, maar volgens mij vandaag de dag al lang niet meer.

[arPos]

Ja werken met een kiesdeler lijkt mij ook het meest logisch.

maar goed we hebben het over een anglo-land, die stellen de zaken nu eenmaal graag zwart wit.

[hookee]

Veel te veel tekst om te lezen maar; goed plan !

[Joostje]

En de knakkers daar zijn eruit: het wordt een Tory/Libdem regering.

[E.I Kipping]

Ik ben voor een districtenstelsel gecombineerd met een evenredige vertegenwoordiging, een soort van personalisierte Verhältniswahl, met een kiesdrempel van 5%. Het principe van het Duitse systeem. En de Eerste Kamer mag van mij overigens ook opgeheven worden.

[hookee]

E.I Kipping schreef:

Ik ben voor een districtenstelsel gecombineerd met een evenredige vertegenwoordiging, een soort van personalisierte Verhältniswahl, met een kiesdrempel van 5%. Het principe van het Duitse systeem. En de Eerste Kamer mag van mij overigens ook opgeheven worden.

Waarom disctricten? Waarom zou je afronden per district ? Landelijke politiek wordt toch ook niet per district bedreven?
Met de huidige techniek kun je ieder stemmetje laten gelden en hoeft er niets "afgeroomd" te worden.