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Oud 29-07-2006, 23:24
Gatara
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Love & Peace schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 00:12 :

Ow sorry, ik dacht dat je het totaal aantal Hezbollah leden bedoelde. Israel zegt namelijk dat er tot nu toe 200 hezbollah strijders zijn gedood, en niet alleen in dat dorpje. Novum maakt melding van 20 doden aan libaneze zijde...
Je hebt gelijk, mijn excuses. Maar 20 doden is het getal van vandaag. Gisteren zouden er 26 gevallen zijn. Van Hezbollah zijde.
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Oud 29-07-2006, 23:28
Gatara
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Uit Hezbollahs programma (1985):

The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity."

En dan:

Nasrallah: Israel temporary country


Roee Nahmias
(...)
The sheikh referred to Israel as a “temporary country.

“Israel was established as a military state; the army was not established as an army of a country,” he said.

(...)

“So far the enemy has only suffered military defeats, as was the case with the most important of its three Navy vessels off the Lebanese coast – which was struck. This was also the case during the ground war, when elite Golani Brigade forces were defeated,” he said.

“You can see the amount of damage we have caused them in photos showing soldiers evacuated on stretchers lying on their stomach because they were shot in the back while trying to escape. The most important loss of the enemy relates to the morale of its leadership and army, as the army is incapable of overcoming a small organization with a strong belief in its cause."

The Hizbullah chief added: “(Vice Premier Shimon) Peres said ‘this is a life or death war for Israel,’ and he is right because he knows that if the resistance will come out triumphant this time the Zionist entity will not have a future. When the (Israeli) nation will begin to lose faith in its army it will mark the beginning of the end for this entity.”
(...)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...283155,00.html


--------

T.a.v. het onderstreepte:

het is wel zeer toevallig allemaal dat de kidnappings rond het tekenen van het gevangenendocument door de politieke tak van de Hamas gebeurde.

Laatst gewijzigd op 29-07-2006 om 23:31.
Oud 29-07-2006, 23:52
Gatara
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sick



Akko: Arab MK, sister attacked by 3 Jews

Abas Zkoor claims ‘three crazy drunkards’ chased after his sister yelling ‘Arab, Nasrallah should kill you’ and tried to stab her; MK lightly injured by knife while trying to protect her
Roee Nahmias

MK Abas Zkoor (United Arab List-Ta'al), who lives in Akko, claimed that he and his sister, who wears traditional Muslim attire, were attacked with a knife by a group of young Jews in the city.

Zkoor, who was lightly injured in his hand as he was stabbed by one of the assailants while trying to protect his sister, filed a complaint
with the police.

"A couple of crazy drunkards chased after my sister and said to her ‘Arab, Nasrallah should kill you’. She ran away, but they chased after her, caught her and began to beat her. One of them took out a knife and tried to stab her. When I heard the screams, I arrived at the scene, and then they started to curse me. They wounded my finger, and my friend's ear," Zkoor told Ynet.

Akko police said three suspects were apprehended, adding that Zkoor was not attacked because of his MK status.

According to Zkoor, a young Arab man who happened to pass by prevented the assailants from stabbing his sister. The MK said he yelled at one of the assailants “aren’t you ashamed to attack a woman?”

In 2003 a bomb exploded beneath the car of Arab MK Isam Makhoul in Haifa. Haifa residents Eliran Golan and Alex Rabinovich were accused of plotting the attack; Golan later committed suicide.

A number of young Arabs began to gather at the scene and shortly thereafter police arrived and arrested the three assailants.

“One of the youngsters was injured in his ear and was evacuated to a Nahariya hospital,” Zkoor said.

The Arab MK and his sister claim the attack was nationalistically-motivated.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...283237,00.html
Oud 29-07-2006, 23:53
Gatara
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Ik ben benieuwd,...........maar ik betwijfel dat de soldaten vrijgelaten zullen worden.


France, Lebanon to deploy to border with Israel

Ronny Sofer

France and the Lebanese army will take part in the multinational peacekeeping force expected to take position along the southern Lebanese border, it was revealed following a meeting between US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in Jerusalem.

The two met at the Prime Minister’s official residence in Jerusalem late Saturday night for nearly two hours, most of which was spent in one-on-one talks.

US Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs C. David Welch, National Security Council Director for Near East and North African
Affairs Elliot Abrams, Olmert’s chief-of-staff Dr. Yoram Turbovitz, his diplomatic advisor Shalom Turgeman, and his military adviser Maj.-Gen. Gadi Shamni also took part in some of the talks.

The meeting was reportedly held in a cordial atmosphere, and between the diplomatic deliberations, Rice and Olmert took dinner together. Olmert’s office said that during the entire meeting, Rice did not at all press the issue of a ceasefire.

The two leaders also agreed that any diplomatic arrangement to end the fighting would be dependent on the release of kidnapped IDF soldiers Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev.

Regarding the establishment of a multinational peacekeeping force, the conditions for its establishment, the length of its mandate and its responsibilities were not yet finalized, although Rice expressed optimism that it would be set up very soon.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...283247,00.html
Oud 30-07-2006, 10:22
Gatara
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Olmert: Qana used for launching rockets

Ronny Sofer

In a first reference to the Israel Air Force strike in the southern Lebanese village of Qana, which killed at least 55 people, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told his ministers on Sunday that "from reports I have received, the village of Qana was used as a center for launching rockets at Kiryat Shmona and Afula."

"Hundreds of rockets have been fired from the village's surroundings and dozens have been fired from inside the village," he added.

Olmert was briefed on the serious incident by his military secretary Gad Shmani.

Injured evacuated (Video: Reuters)

"All the residents were warned and called to leave. There are hiding places for rockets inside the village, and the village itself constitutes a shelter for rocket launchers," the prime minister revealed.

He added that "no one gave an instruction to fire on civilians, and this doesn’t mean that any of us gave an order to fire at civilians. We have no policy of killing innocent civilians. For 18 days hundreds and thousands of missiles have been fired, aimed at murdering innocent civilians in the north."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...283448,00.html



Lebanon: Dozens killed in IDF strike

Ali Waked

Dozens hurt in southern Lebanon: At least 55 people, including 21 children, were killed after a three-story building collapsed in the village of Qana in southern Lebanon.

Lebanese media reported that the building, which serves as a shelter for refugees from southern Lebanon, was hit in an Israel Air Force air strike.

A senior IAF officer said that the Air Force has been striking the area for three days now following dozens of incidents in which Katyusha rockets were launched from the village and its surrounding areas, and that residents were warned to leave.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz instructed the Israel Defense Forces to launch an immediate inquiry into the incident in Qana.

The officer explained that "also yesterday (Saturday) rockets were launched at Kiryat Shmona, Ma'a lot, Afula and other areas. We are only striking areas from which rockets are being fired, and the building struck this morning was close to an area where there was an attempt to launch Katyusha at Israel."

"On a regular basis terrorists tend to run dozens of meters into the building, sometimes with the launchers themselves, and hide there," he said.

According to the officer, the IDF issued a severe warning to the village residents, as well as to residents of other villages in the area, that they must leave the place due to the activities of terrorists in the area and the fact that fact that the IDF was operating there.

"We followed the operation regime in the village and it seemed abandoned by civilians, so the strikes are carried out there, not against the village itself but against the terror centers," he said.

The officer noted that terrorists may be insisting to operate from the village in light of the fact that it symbols an incident that took place there at the midst of Operation Grapes of Wrath, in which dozens of Lebanese civilians were killed and which was one of the main causes which led to the end of the operation.

'Dozens buried under rubble'
On Sunday morning, shortly after 8 a.m., a report was received on the building collapse. Sources in Lebanon claimed that the Israel Air Force struck in the area and destroyed several buildings, and as a result many people were trapped in a three-story building.

Similar to the incident which took place in Qana during Operation Grapes of Wrath, the building hit on Sunday was also used as a shelter by refugees from southern Lebanon who escaped the Israel Defense Forces' strikes.

According to reports, some 100 refugees were in the building at the time of the strike.

The al-Jazeera television network and the Lebanese and Arab stations reported that 35 people were killed, many of them buried under the rubble. The Lebanese noted that rescue forces were experiencing difficulties due to the great wreckage in the area. Lebanese rescue services and Red Cross members were operating to complete the evacuation.

According to eyewitnesses, many people were searching for survivors with bare hands, while bodies of children lay in the area and many injured were crying for help. One of the survivors searched for his sister who was buried inside the building, while the body of a 70-year-old woman and a small baby were recovered from the ruins.

The Lebanese Health Ministry reported that 403 civilians were killed so far in southern Lebanon, and the death toll continues to rise. Sources at the United Nations reported that the numbers were much higher, possibly close to 600.

The official reports came from police and hospital sources, but according to sources in the UN's aid organizations, the police and health services in many areas in Lebanon have stopped operating, with police officers escaping and hospitals shut down.

Qana – end of Operation Grapes of Wrath
In 1996, during Operation Grapes of Wrath, the IDF shot an artillery shell at fire sources in the village of Qana in southern Lebanon. The shell hit a UN outpost in the village, which was functioning at the time as a shelter for residents of the village. The shell caused the death of over 100 Lebanese civilians and the injury of tens more village residents.

The results of the shelling disaster realized the Israeli fear of international pressure. Pictures of the dead and injured were broadcast throughout the world, giving birth to intense international pressure on Israel to end the operation even though its objectives were not yet achieved.

A short time before the events of Qana, the UN initiated an US-led mediation process between Israel and Syrian and Lebanese representatives (who acted in coordination with Hizbullah). After a number of days of negotiations, the representatives signed an agreement called Understandings of Grapes of Wrath (4.26.1996), in which the two sides committed not to involved civilians in war.

Practically, it was agreed that Hizbullah would abstain from firing Katyusha rockets at Israel, and that the IDF would abstain from
shooting at civilian targets in southern Lebanon. Likewise, it was agreed upon to establishment of a follow-up committee, in which the United States, France, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel would participate, that would oversee the application of the understandings. One possible interpretation of the agreement is that Israel recognized Hizbullah's right to strike IDF soldiers in the security buffer zone.

Fighting approaches Syrian border
On Saturday night, the Air Force continued to strike targets across southern Lebanon. Among the 40 targets attacked were also Hizbullah buildings, bridges, a rocket launcher and access routes.

The Air Force also struck near the border between Syria and Lebanon, in the Bekaa Valley area, security forces in Lebanon reported. It was the first strike in the area in 18 years.

IAF aircrafts launched three missiles at the Masana crossing, which is 300 meters (984 feet) away from the Lebanese customs area.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...283311,00.html

Deja vu 1996

Laatst gewijzigd op 30-07-2006 om 10:26.
Oud 30-07-2006, 10:38
Boebsie
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T_ID schreef op 29-07-2006 @ 22:56 :

Het is inderdaad een mix van ingebakken xenofobie die geactiveerd wordt door een massale toestroom van vreemdelingen. Dat verschijnsel komt vaker voor, zo was er ook wantrouwen tegen de eerste golf gastarbeiders in Nederland, echter geen noemenswaardige agressie, dat is dan weer het verschil.
Dat, plus de nationalisten die predikten dat elk volk een eigen land moest hebben, het zal de oorzaak zijn geweest.
Ik verbind echter wel conclusies aan die agressie, want ondanks dat het een reden is is het geen rechtvaardiging. Daarom zul je me ook nooit zien betogen dat men terug moet keren naar de grenzen van de originele VN resolutie. Nu zijn de Joodse migranten tijdens en na de oorlog ook doorgeschoten op sommige dingen, dus wat dat betreft bestaan er geen echt onschuldigen meer in het conflict.
Nee nee, ik ben het niet eens met het genoemde voorbeeld van die gastarbeiders in Nederland. Nederland telde toen circa 13 miljoen inwoners, ongeveer een half miljoen of misschien niet eens destijds was gastarbeider en zij kochten geen land maar kwamen hier laag arbeid verrichten ofwel vormden minder een "bedreiging".
In Palestina verliep dat heel anders. Rond 1880 had je 450.000 arabieren tegenover 25.000 joden. Tussen 1880 en 1940 is dit gestegen naar 600.000 joden "tegenover" 1 miljoen arabieren. Joden kochten land en begonnen ook daadwerkelijk land te besturen.
Zie je het verschil? Je zegt hetzelf dat Nederlanders al de nodige angst hadden, laatstaan Arabieren kijkende naar het bovengenoemde scenario. Dat ze aggresiever reageerde dan de nederlanders lijkt mij volslagen logisch. Immers leek het meer op een bezetting van joden, wat het misschien ook ergens was, echter hadden de joden daarin niet zoveel schuld destijds. In een latur stadium bleek wel dat ze zich ook als bezetter gingen gedragen (kolonisten).
Ik denk dat zelfs wij nederlanders met het klein beetje nationalisme dat we hebben geweldadig zouden reageren als een andere bevolkingsgroep in korte tijd massaal (dus verhoudingen worden in 1 keer 60% 40%) naar Nederland toestroomt en ook daadwerkelijk macht vergaart. Dat geldt denkt ik overigens voor elk land.
Maar ik ben het ermee eens dat er geen onschuldigen meer bestaan in het conflict.


Citaat:
T_ID schreef op 29-07-2006 @ 22:56 :

Daarom ben ik ook zo'n voorstander van uitgaan van de huidige situatie; beide zijden willen matten, okay, dat mag, maar dan wel de uitkomst daarvan accepteren.
Ben ik het ook niet mee eens. Allereerst leidt matten zoiezo tot niks dan nog meer haat (terreur) en onschuldige burgerslachtoffers. Dat terzijde is Israel veel en veel sterker dan haar tegenstanders om uiteenlopende redenen. Allereerst wordt Israel overduidelijk door een supermacht gesteund en zijn ze rijker. Bovendien mogen organisaties als Hamas en Hezbollah niet eens handelen in wapens dan is het opeens illegaal... ergens misschien logisch aangezien bijvoorbeeld Hezbollah geen staat vertegenwoordigd en puur een organisatie is. Aan de andere kant zou je ze ook als verzetters kunnen beschouwen, in een conflict hebben zij daarom evengoed recht om zich te bewapenen als haar tegenstanders.
Dan is er nog een verschil Hezbollah en Hamas zijn zoiezo kleinere organisaties, ze vertegenwoordigen niet alle palestijnen of libanezen. Als we het dus hebben over "uitkomst accepteren"
zullen mensen worden benadeeld (libanezen die bv niet Hezbollah steunen) die eigenlijk niks van doen hebben met het conflict.

Citaat:
T_ID schreef op 29-07-2006 @ 22:56 :

Daarna trekken we het natuurlijk recht tot iets dat rechtvaardig is, maar rechtvaardig in de historische context, niet rechtvaardig vanuit een zelf ontwikkelt (vaak incompleet) beeld.
Snap niet zo goed wat je hiermee bedoeld?
Oud 30-07-2006, 10:40
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Gatara schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 00:28 :
het is wel zeer toevallig allemaal dat de kidnappings rond het tekenen van het gevangenendocument door de politieke tak van de Hamas gebeurde.
Jaaa, heel toevallig!
Oud 30-07-2006, 10:44
Gatara
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nare man schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:40 :
Jaaa, heel toevallig!
lekker inhoudelijk weer.
Oud 30-07-2006, 10:46
Gatara
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Boebsie schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:38 :

Zie je het verschil? Je zegt hetzelf dat Nederlanders al de nodige angst hadden, laatstaan Arabieren kijkende naar het bovengenoemde scenario. Dat ze aggresiever reageerde dan de nederlanders lijkt mij volslagen logisch. Immers leek het meer op een bezetting van joden, wat het misschien ook ergens was, echter hadden de joden daarin niet zoveel schuld destijds. In een latur stadium bleek wel dat ze zich ook als bezetter gingen gedragen (kolonisten).
Je moet 1 ding niet vergeten: er werd ook veel angst ingepraat bij de bewoners.

Net zoals Wilders dat bij het NLs publiek tracht te doen, zeg maar
Oud 30-07-2006, 10:55
Boebsie
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Gatara schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:46 :
Je moet 1 ding niet vergeten: er werd ook veel angst ingepraat bij de bewoners.

Net zoals Wilders dat bij het NLs publiek tracht te doen, zeg maar
Dat is absoluut waar (arabisch nationalisme), maar die angst was wel degelijk ergens gegrond. Joden begonnen zich namelijk in Palestina daadwerkelijk als bezetter te gedragen (kolonisten).
Oud 30-07-2006, 10:57
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Boebsie schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:55 :
Dat is absoluut waar (arabisch nationalisme), maar die angst was wel degelijk ergens gegrond. Joden begonnen zich namelijk in Palestina daadwerkelijk als bezetter te gedragen (kolonisten).
1. je hebt het waarschijnlijk over een klein pieterpeuterig deel van "Palestina" (het mandaat);
2. wat bedoel je precies met "als een bezetter te gedragen"?
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:07
Gatara
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Verontrustend:


Foreboding

"The Sandmonkey"

I just received word that things in Lebanon are, getting, ehh, a little secterian. There was stories of Shia refugees in a druze beighbourhood that tore up Walid Jumbalatt's pictures and posters that were hanging on the walls. There was another story of a Christian supermarkets refusing to sell groceries to Shia regugees, saying that they are saving it for the christians. I recalled a post that I read at Mustapha's blog the nother day, where the Shia regugees booed and heckled the FPM sunni youth while it was bringing them food and supplies, and I started to get slightly alarmed.

The Lebanese are currently united behind Hezbollah because they want the israeli shelling to stop, and the only people who are doing something about it are Hezbollah. But the moment ba cease fire takes place this could all change. I am more afraid of lebanse civil war than I am of what is going on right now, and I think many lebanese people would share my view. The Lebanese fabric maybe united right now, but it's secterian. And while I said that any civil war would be won by the Shia at this point, it doesn't mean it would be a pleasant victory, or that it would stop the other lebanese sects from fighting it. All it would take, for it all to go to hell, is for someone to do something stupid, someone else to retaliate, and mob rule will take over.

However, since I didn't want to be the lil monkey who cried civil war, I figured I would cruise around the lebanese blogs to see if the stories I've heard were isoalted incidents, or if there is a larger pattern taking shape here. I basically wanted them to comfort me that what's happening right now is the worst that Lebanon will have to endure. After reading a couple of them, such comfort now seems lacking. Here are a few examples:

This is a picture posted on Michael Totten's blog. It's of a christian mob attacking a car the otehr day for having a Support Hezbollah sticker on them:


There are the reports of Hezbollah firing their rockets from the Ain Ebel Village, which is christian, against its people's will:

Citaat:
But for some of the Christians who had made it out in this convoy, it was not just privations they wanted to talk about, but their ordeal at the hands of Hezbollah — a contrast to the Shiites, who make up a vast majority of the population in southern Lebanon and broadly support the militia.

“Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets,” said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. “They are shooting from between our houses.”
And from behind churches as well, it seems:

Citaat:
Hezbollah has been firing rockets from the village since Day 1 hiding behind innocent people’s places and even CHURCHES. No one is allowed to argue with the Hezbollah gunmen who wont hesitate to shoot you and i ve heard about more than one shooting incident including young men from the village and Hezbollah.
The Hezbollah forces didn't hesitate at shooting such a man who didn't obey them:

Citaat:
One woman, who would not give her name because she had a government job and feared retribution, said Hezbollah fighters had killed a man who was trying to leave Bint Jbail.

“This is what’s happening, but no one wants to say it” for fear of Hezbollah, she said.
And then you have the similar stories about the druze village of Mari and their desperate battle to keep Hezbollah out:

Citaat:
Not all villages in southern Lebanon are Shiite. Just above the abandoned SLA base at the old Majidiyya estate on the Lebanon-Israel border sits a small, quiet Druse village called Mari. You will not find Mari on any maps, but at the beginning of the current conflict Mari found itself caught between the Israeli Air Force, which apparently wanted to avoid bombing the village directly, and Hizbullah, which wanted to enter the town at all costs. You see, Mari's location would provide the militia an excellent overview of the Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona (and the settlement of Metulla, which is closer but much smaller), and finding a way to operate there would give Hizbullah increased civilian cover for their Katyusha rocket fire.

Residents who have recently escaped from Mari tell of a dramatic, desperate situation in the village. The Druse residents, who have no affinity at all for Hizbullah, resisted Hizbullah's attempts to enter the village.
The IAF apparently and unwittingly assisted in their resistance by bombing the roads leading into the village, cutting off the militia's ability to enter the town, at least temporarily. Hizbullah responded by cutting off the town's electricity and water supply, essentially laying seige to a town on its own side of the border, hoping that residents would pack up and leave. Many of them have done so. My sources say that Hizbullah has been desperate to enter the village but has as of yet been unable to do so in large numbers. Residents also describe a growing humanitarian crisis in the village due to the lack of fresh water.

[…]

In the interests of clarity, let me reiterate what I have already said: Hizbullah attempted to enter Mari not to defend it from attackers, but so they could fire rockets from the village toward Israel. Hizbullah's intention was to bring Israeli reprisals on the town, ostensibly to destroy or damage it significantly, and to cause greater civilian suffering. Hizbullah's MO and tactics are well-known in the south.
However, Druse typically defend their own villages, and in the case of Mari (a place I have been to several times, many of whose residents I know personally), the residents have desperately tried to keep Hizbullah fighters out of their area.
And let's not forget the personal account with an old christian militant and war criminal, who are, apprently, is confirming that "the Youth" readying up for what they consider to be the upcoming war:

Citaat:
So today, I visited Tony and asked him if he was getting ready to fight against the Hezbollah. He said that he was getting too old (he is in his early 40s), and that the 18-year olds were mobilizing, but that they don't have machine guns now. I asked him if they would receive weapons from Israel. He said, "No, Israel is the enemy. Before it was different. Israel doesn't care about any of the Lebanese." He prophesized that a civil war will break out a month or two after the Israeli bombing stops, and that Christians, Sunnis and Druze will fight the "fucker Shia", with arms from the US and France.
If this goes down the only way it could, ehh…I shudder at the thought!

You know, I am not the praying kind, but I might start praying for Lebanon right about now. I think you should too.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:09
Boebsie
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Gatara schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:57 :
1. je hebt het waarschijnlijk over een klein pieterpeuterig deel van "Palestina" (het mandaat);
2. wat bedoel je precies met "als een bezetter te gedragen"?
Nou allereerst bedoel ik met die bezetting uiteraard die kolonisten.
Maakt niet uit al gaat het om een centimeter. Het gaat om het principe, wel degelijk reden om je zorgen te gaan maken als "jou" land word ingepikt lijkt me zo.

Maar ook dat joden zich als landbestuurder begonnen te gedragen inplaats van landeigenaar, nog voor dat de staat Israel was opgericht. Ze hadden nog voor de oprichting van Israel eigenlijk al volledig een eigen "staatje" binnen de staat Palestina, niet officieel maar officieus wel. (eigen instuten, medische voorzieningen, eigen regels etc etc). Wat uiteraard wel het gevolg was van de tweedeling die onstond in Palestina, maar goed die tweedeling was er eigenlijk vanaf die immigratiegolf.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:16
Relief
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Gatara schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:22 :
Olmert: Qana used for launching rockets

Ronny Sofer

In a first reference to the Israel Air Force strike in the southern Lebanese village of Qana, which killed at least 55 people, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told his ministers on Sunday that "from reports I have received, the village of Qana was used as a center for launching rockets at Kiryat Shmona and Afula."

"Hundreds of rockets have been fired from the village's surroundings and dozens have been fired from inside the village," he added.

Olmert was briefed on the serious incident by his military secretary Gad Shmani.

Injured evacuated (Video: Reuters)

"All the residents were warned and called to leave. There are hiding places for rockets inside the village, and the village itself constitutes a shelter for rocket launchers," the prime minister revealed.

He added that "no one gave an instruction to fire on civilians, and this doesn’t mean that any of us gave an order to fire at civilians. We have no policy of killing innocent civilians. For 18 days hundreds and thousands of missiles have been fired, aimed at murdering innocent civilians in the north."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...283448,00.html



Lebanon: Dozens killed in IDF strike

Ali Waked

Dozens hurt in southern Lebanon: At least 55 people, including 21 children, were killed after a three-story building collapsed in the village of Qana in southern Lebanon.

Lebanese media reported that the building, which serves as a shelter for refugees from southern Lebanon, was hit in an Israel Air Force air strike.

A senior IAF officer said that the Air Force has been striking the area for three days now following dozens of incidents in which Katyusha rockets were launched from the village and its surrounding areas, and that residents were warned to leave.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz instructed the Israel Defense Forces to launch an immediate inquiry into the incident in Qana.

The officer explained that "also yesterday (Saturday) rockets were launched at Kiryat Shmona, Ma'a lot, Afula and other areas. We are only striking areas from which rockets are being fired, and the building struck this morning was close to an area where there was an attempt to launch Katyusha at Israel."

"On a regular basis terrorists tend to run dozens of meters into the building, sometimes with the launchers themselves, and hide there," he said.

According to the officer, the IDF issued a severe warning to the village residents, as well as to residents of other villages in the area, that they must leave the place due to the activities of terrorists in the area and the fact that fact that the IDF was operating there.

"We followed the operation regime in the village and it seemed abandoned by civilians, so the strikes are carried out there, not against the village itself but against the terror centers," he said.

The officer noted that terrorists may be insisting to operate from the village in light of the fact that it symbols an incident that took place there at the midst of Operation Grapes of Wrath, in which dozens of Lebanese civilians were killed and which was one of the main causes which led to the end of the operation.

'Dozens buried under rubble'
On Sunday morning, shortly after 8 a.m., a report was received on the building collapse. Sources in Lebanon claimed that the Israel Air Force struck in the area and destroyed several buildings, and as a result many people were trapped in a three-story building.

Similar to the incident which took place in Qana during Operation Grapes of Wrath, the building hit on Sunday was also used as a shelter by refugees from southern Lebanon who escaped the Israel Defense Forces' strikes.

According to reports, some 100 refugees were in the building at the time of the strike.

The al-Jazeera television network and the Lebanese and Arab stations reported that 35 people were killed, many of them buried under the rubble. The Lebanese noted that rescue forces were experiencing difficulties due to the great wreckage in the area. Lebanese rescue services and Red Cross members were operating to complete the evacuation.

According to eyewitnesses, many people were searching for survivors with bare hands, while bodies of children lay in the area and many injured were crying for help. One of the survivors searched for his sister who was buried inside the building, while the body of a 70-year-old woman and a small baby were recovered from the ruins.

The Lebanese Health Ministry reported that 403 civilians were killed so far in southern Lebanon, and the death toll continues to rise. Sources at the United Nations reported that the numbers were much higher, possibly close to 600.

The official reports came from police and hospital sources, but according to sources in the UN's aid organizations, the police and health services in many areas in Lebanon have stopped operating, with police officers escaping and hospitals shut down.

Qana – end of Operation Grapes of Wrath
In 1996, during Operation Grapes of Wrath, the IDF shot an artillery shell at fire sources in the village of Qana in southern Lebanon. The shell hit a UN outpost in the village, which was functioning at the time as a shelter for residents of the village. The shell caused the death of over 100 Lebanese civilians and the injury of tens more village residents.

The results of the shelling disaster realized the Israeli fear of international pressure. Pictures of the dead and injured were broadcast throughout the world, giving birth to intense international pressure on Israel to end the operation even though its objectives were not yet achieved.

A short time before the events of Qana, the UN initiated an US-led mediation process between Israel and Syrian and Lebanese representatives (who acted in coordination with Hizbullah). After a number of days of negotiations, the representatives signed an agreement called Understandings of Grapes of Wrath (4.26.1996), in which the two sides committed not to involved civilians in war.

Practically, it was agreed that Hizbullah would abstain from firing Katyusha rockets at Israel, and that the IDF would abstain from
shooting at civilian targets in southern Lebanon. Likewise, it was agreed upon to establishment of a follow-up committee, in which the United States, France, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel would participate, that would oversee the application of the understandings. One possible interpretation of the agreement is that Israel recognized Hizbullah's right to strike IDF soldiers in the security buffer zone.

Fighting approaches Syrian border
On Saturday night, the Air Force continued to strike targets across southern Lebanon. Among the 40 targets attacked were also Hizbullah buildings, bridges, a rocket launcher and access routes.

The Air Force also struck near the border between Syria and Lebanon, in the Bekaa Valley area, security forces in Lebanon reported. It was the first strike in the area in 18 years.

IAF aircrafts launched three missiles at the Masana crossing, which is 300 meters (984 feet) away from the Lebanese customs area.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...283311,00.html

Deja vu 1996
oh er komen raketten van Qana, dus laten we maar meteen flats aanvallen. Je weet het maarnooit natuurlijk, die kinderen kunnen ook wel gevaarlijk zijn!!! Laffe moordenaars! 55 mensen, 21 kinderen!!! Hoe durf je nog je acties te rechtvaardigheden zionist!!
En let me guess: de rest van de wereld houdt netjes zijn mond dicht lafaards!
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:20
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Gatara schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:07 :
Verontrustend:


Foreboding

"The Sandmonkey"

I just received word that things in Lebanon are, getting, ehh, a little secterian. There was stories of Shia refugees in a druze beighbourhood that tore up Walid Jumbalatt's pictures and posters that were hanging on the walls. There was another story of a Christian supermarkets refusing to sell groceries to Shia regugees, saying that they are saving it for the christians. I recalled a post that I read at Mustapha's blog the nother day, where the Shia regugees booed and heckled the FPM sunni youth while it was bringing them food and supplies, and I started to get slightly alarmed.

The Lebanese are currently united behind Hezbollah because they want the israeli shelling to stop, and the only people who are doing something about it are Hezbollah. But the moment ba cease fire takes place this could all change. I am more afraid of lebanse civil war than I am of what is going on right now, and I think many lebanese people would share my view. The Lebanese fabric maybe united right now, but it's secterian. And while I said that any civil war would be won by the Shia at this point, it doesn't mean it would be a pleasant victory, or that it would stop the other lebanese sects from fighting it. All it would take, for it all to go to hell, is for someone to do something stupid, someone else to retaliate, and mob rule will take over.

However, since I didn't want to be the lil monkey who cried civil war, I figured I would cruise around the lebanese blogs to see if the stories I've heard were isoalted incidents, or if there is a larger pattern taking shape here. I basically wanted them to comfort me that what's happening right now is the worst that Lebanon will have to endure. After reading a couple of them, such comfort now seems lacking. Here are a few examples:

This is a picture posted on Michael Totten's blog. It's of a christian mob attacking a car the otehr day for having a Support Hezbollah sticker on them:
[afbeelding]

There are the reports of Hezbollah firing their rockets from the Ain Ebel Village, which is christian, against its people's will:



And from behind churches as well, it seems:



The Hezbollah forces didn't hesitate at shooting such a man who didn't obey them:



And then you have the similar stories about the druze village of Mari and their desperate battle to keep Hezbollah out:



And let's not forget the personal account with an old christian militant and war criminal, who are, apprently, is confirming that "the Youth" readying up for what they consider to be the upcoming war:



If this goes down the only way it could, ehh…I shudder at the thought!

You know, I am not the praying kind, but I might start praying for Lebanon right about now. I think you should too.
een analyse van een blogger. Gatara kom terug naar de werkelijkheid. Blog's zijn allesbehalve betrouwbare bronnen.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:21
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Alsof er niets beters te doen is...
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:26
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Sherpao schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:21 :
Alsof er niets beters te doen is...
al moet ik zeggen dat libanezen wel wat beters te doen hebben, dan een VN gebouw aan te vallen. Doe eens wat terug aan de oorzaak: Israel.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:26
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Boebsie schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:38 :
Ben ik het ook niet mee eens. Allereerst leidt matten zoiezo tot niks dan nog meer haat (terreur) en onschuldige burgerslachtoffers. Dat terzijde is Israel veel en veel sterker dan haar tegenstanders om uiteenlopende redenen.
Uiteraard, maar Israël was niet veel sterker. Dat ze de onafhankelijkheidsoorlog hebben gewonnen mag best een mirakel worden genoemt, want ze stonden tegenover meerdere staande legers van landen, plus de Palestijnen.

Ook met die uitrusting viel het wel mee. Totdat Tjechoslowakije besloot om een aantal Messerschidts te doneren (ironisch; die toestellen waren nog door de nazi's ontworpen en gebouwd) was er geen Israëlische luchtmacht. Ik moet zeggen dat ik voor het feit dat zo'n minderheid verschillende gecombineerde legers de baas kon best bewondering heb.

Tegenwoordig ligt dat anders, omdat ze gewonnen hebben en nu een gevestigd land zijn.

De reden dat de Hamas en Hezbollah niet mogen bewapenen is dat ze geen verzets- maar een terreurorganisatie zijn. In de handvesten van beiden staat niet dat ze een oplossing willen of een eigen staat willen, er staat dat ze Israël, iedereen erin en eraan willen vernietigen.

De PLO mag dan weer wel haar eigen troepen onderhouden omdat die het Palestijnse gezag (zouden moeten) zijn.
Citaat:
Boebsie schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 11:38 :
Snap niet zo goed wat je hiermee bedoeld?
Wat een rechtvaardige landverdeling inhoudt is door het feit dat beide zijden naar de wapens grepen, in plaats van te praten, veranderd. Om het maar met andere woorden te zeggen.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:26
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:20 :
een analyse van een blogger. Gatara kom terug naar de werkelijkheid. Blog's zijn allesbehalve betrouwbare bronnen.
Zulke verhalen komen er altijd, als een land wordt aangevallen. Des te minder tegenstanders krijg je, voor de acties van Israel.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:27
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:20 :
een analyse van een blogger. Gatara kom terug naar de werkelijkheid. Blog's zijn allesbehalve betrouwbare bronnen.
Die blog bevatte foto's en verhalen van kranten. Je kunt niet met een uitgestreken gezicht beweren dat alles erin opinie is.


Honderdduizenden Israëliërs gevlucht

JERUZALEM - Ongeveer 330.000 Israëliërs zijn in de afgelopen weken gevlucht voor de raketaanvallen van Hezbollah vanuit Libanon.

Een politieman draagt een gewond Israëlisch meisje naar een ambulance na een rakentaanval van Hezbollah. Foto EPA

Het gaat om inwoners uit het noorden van Israël.
Dat heeft een woordvoerder van het Israëlische ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken zondag laten weten.

De woordvoerder zei dat de raketaanvallen het leven van ongeveer een miljoen inwoners van het noorden van Israël beïnvloeden. "Een derde van hen is vertrokken", aldus de zegsman.
http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/article506267.ece
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:28
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More to Lebanon war than meets the eye
7/30/2006 7:48:00 AM GMT

By: Ramzy Baroud

At first glance, history seems to repeat itself in Lebanon, where a lengthy cold war is intermittently interrupted by an extreme show of violence as traditional players quickly sprint into action, stacking their support behind one party or the other.

News headlines remind us of past conflicts such as that of 1978 – when Israel illegally occupied parts of Lebanon – and 1982 – when Israel unleashed a full scale invasion and most deadly campaign against its small neighbor to the north, killing tens of thousands, mostly civilians.

But the unreserved significance of the ongoing conflict has more to do with Israel's military ambitions – not necessarily colonial, but rather strategic - than with Hezbollah's ability to strike deep into Israel.

Let's examine the bigger picture, starting well before Hezbollah's daring capture of two Israeli soldiers in cross border fighting, which unfortunately, at least as far the media is concerned, is the solitary provocation that sparked the current conflict. (A San Francisco Chronicle investigative report by Matthew Kalman - Israel Set War Plan More Than a Year Ago, July 21, 2006 – sheds more light on Israel's intent to carry a three-week bombardment of Lebanon as early as 2000.)

For years, Israel's strategic objective has been to break up the Syria-Lebanon front – to isolate Syria and meddle as always in Lebanon's affairs – while diminishing whatever leverage Iran has in Lebanon through its support of Hezbollah.

As I argued in the first chapter of my book: the Second Palestinian Intifada, Israel's military defeat in Lebanon and its army's abrupt exit in May 2000, has espoused what became increasingly known as "the spirit of resistance" among Palestinians and Lebanese alike. Israel has proved once and for all to have serious military shortcomings, and Hezbollah – an organization that was comprised mostly of the relatives of Israel's victims in the invasion of 1982 and subsequent years- was the single entity that exposed those limitations.

Thus, Israel upgraded its use of violence to unprecedented degrees during the Palestinian uprising of September 2000 – months after the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon- to send a clear message that their military travesty in Lebanon will not be repeated elsewhere. Moreover, despite its insistence that it left Lebanon for good, Israel never departed from its original military goal of destroying Hezbollah or meddling in Lebanese affairs.

Then there was the American attack on Iraq in March 2003 - clearly a highly dangerous military adventure – which was lauded by Israeli and pro-Israeli neo-conservative ideologues in Tel Aviv and in Washington as prudent and indispensable involvement, that would further cement Israel's security and the US strategic objectives in the Middle East – thoughtlessly considered one and the same.

The Iraq war was anticipated to be a 'cakewalk', which would be followed – according to various neo-cons documents available on the web – by a regime change in Syria and Iran, respectively. Though both countries have proved unequally vital in the US so-called 'war on terror', Israel views both as imminent and ominous threats, for only these countries, after the collapse of the Iraqi military front, still possess real armies and potential military threats. Of course, such a claim, at least in the Syrian case, is highly questionable.

Bogged down in Iraq in an impossible war, it became clear that the US military is simply incapable of taking on more of Israel's foes. According to Israel's friends in the US Congress and media – and they are plentiful – the mission was not accomplished. This explains the growing neo-con intellectual insurgency against the administration, accusing it of 'mishandling' the Iraq conflict and failing to appreciate the gravity of the Iran threat. While President Bush is relentless in his anti Iran and Syria rhetoric, it's becoming more transparent that a full invasion of Iran, or even Syria are now in the realm of wishful thinking.

With American military ambitions slowly dying out in the dust of the battlefield in Baghdad and Ramadi, Israel is growing utterly frustrated. Why? On one hand, despite the intense pressure on Syria to abandon Lebanon – as it did – Hezbollah's military and political influence hardly faded, as Israel has hoped for an immediate overhaul of the political map of Lebanon and the dismantling of Hezbollah. Even worse, a movement that is parallel to Hezbollah in many ways in Palestinian and Arab psyche, Hamas, was on the rise, this time – ironically - as part of the US advocated democratic reforms campaign in the Middle East.

Hamas’ advent to power in January 2006, was followed by a less decisive Israeli election that brought to power a questionable coalition, whose prime minister and defense minister are known for having no military browses, a major diversion from Israel's traditional politics. In other words, the new Israeli government had a great deal to prove on the battlefield to receive much needed validation at home.

Similar to its political pressure on Lebanon and Syria – using Washington as a conduit- Tel Aviv took on Hamas: a suffocating economic siege, an international smear campaign and a diplomatic blockade – using Washington, but also corrupt ex-Palestinian officials to achieve its goals. That too has failed terribly, which prompted military strikes against Gaza, killing scores and wounding hundreds, mostly civilians. In a rare diversion from its political leadership, the Hamas armed wing responded by capturing an Israeli solider at the border, vowing to only release him if all Palestinian women and children in Israeli jails are set free.

As far as Israel and the US administration – and much of the Western media – are concerned, Hamas provoked the Israeli military wrath that followed, the killing and wounding of hundreds of innocent people and destroying what it has spared in past onslaughts. While Arab governments carried on with business as usual, Hezbollah – who must've know that an Israeli military campaign against Lebanon was inevitable any way – decided to take the initiative by opening a war front on Israel's northern border in the least comfortable times for the Israeli military, with the hope to relieve some of the pressure on Palestinians. Whether it miscalculated or not is another story.

Neither Syria nor Iran asked Hezbollah to start a new war on Israel, though I can imagine that both will likely attempt to reap its benefits in case Hezbollah manages to survive the Israeli onslaught, which is, according to US analyst, William Lind, a victory in itself.

Israel doesn't want to occupy Lebanon, but is keenly interested in destroying Hezbollah, thus sending a clear message to Iran that it is next. It also wants to broaden the Middle East conflict to force the US into an uninvited showdown with Iran and Syria. Expectedly, the US is providing 100 percent political, military and financial cover to Israel's adventurism in Lebanon, but will it go further?

Hezbollah cannot lose if it wishes to survive as a formidable political force in Lebanon. If Hezbollah is disarmed, it is feared that Israel will go back to its full scale meddling in Lebanese affairs, isolating Syria even further, and gaining a strategic battle in its looming showdown with Tehran.

Tragically, Israel's military adventurism and the US reprehensible backing of Israel's endless quest for regional domination has so far seen the death and wounding of thousands of innocent Lebanese civilians, and the destruction of a nation that has barely recovered from past Israeli wars, to once again collapse under the rubble of a new one.

Ramzy Baroud is a U.S. journalist. He is the author of The Second Palestinian Uprising: A Chronicle of a People's Struggle, published by Pluto Press in London, available in the U.S. from the University of Michigan Press, and everywhere from Amazon.com. He is also the editor of PalestineChronicle.com.


Bron: Al-jazeera
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:30
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:28 :
Neither Syria nor Iran asked Hezbollah to start a new war on Israel,
En dat noemt zichzelf dan een journalist? Time magazine had een paginagroot artikel over de verbanden tussen Iran en Hezbollah en deze 'journalist' beweerd fluitend dat de actie van de Hezbollah spontaan is.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:32
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T_ID schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:30 :
En dat noemt zichzelf dan een journalist? Time magazine had een paginagroot artikel over de verbanden tussen Iran en Hezbollah en deze 'journalist' beweerd fluitend dat de actie van de Hezbollah spontaan is.
Deze journalist beweert ook nergens dat er GEEN verbanden zijn. Hij zegt dat Hezbollah zelf de actie kan zijn gestart. Misschien is Iran alleen maar een financiele injectie. Alsof Time magazine altijd gelijk heeft.

Citaat:
though I can imagine that both will likely attempt to reap its benefits in case Hezbollah manages to survive the Israeli onslaught, which is, according to US analyst, William Lind, a victory in itself.
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Laatst gewijzigd op 30-07-2006 om 11:38.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:39
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:26 :
al moet ik zeggen dat libanezen wel wat beters te doen hebben, dan een VN gebouw aan te vallen. Doe eens wat terug aan de oorzaak: Israel.
Israel oprollen, joden naar Alaska of Antartica sturen en het bezette land teruggeven aan de Palestijnen. Beter laat dan nooit. Dit is het beste voor de joden.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:41
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Sherpao schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:39 :
Israel oprollen, joden naar Alaska of Antartica sturen en het bezette land teruggeven aan de Palestijnen. Beter laat dan nooit. Dit is het beste voor de joden.
Oh please kom eens toch met een reeele oplossing.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:42
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:32 :
Deze journalist beweert ook nergens dat er GEEN verbanden zijn. Hij zegt dat Hezbollah zelf de actie kan zijn gestart. Misschien is Iran alleen maar een financiele injectie. Alsof Time magazine altijd gelijk heeft.
Ik vind het lastig om te geloven dat de Hezbollah iets als dit zou beginnen zonder groen licht van de grote baas. In het verleden is dat nooit zo geweest, en de Hezbollah weet nog steeds prima waar hun geld vandaan komt.

überhaupt, te zien aan zijn uitspraken is die journalist verre van objectief. Headlines in zijn eigen 'krant' gaan a la "The Root Causes, Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice" en "Assassinating the Peacekeepers".

Lees anders het artikel van Ad Bloemendaal eens dat ik eerder postte, want van de Palestinian Chronicle worden we niet wijzer.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:44
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:41 :
Oh please kom eens toch met een reeele oplossing.
Op dit moment is het niet reeël maar ik gaf dit als aanzet voor de joden. Want het is een kwestie van tijd tot de joden uitgeroeid worden als ze blijven doorgaan met het uitmoorden van onschuldige niet-joden.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:44
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Overigens:

Israël bestookt huizen militanten in Gaza

GAZA - Israëlische gevechtstoestellen hebben in de nacht van zaterdag op zondag twee huizen van militante Palestijnen ...
in de Gazastrook onder vuur genomen. De bewoners van beide panden werden kort voor de aanvallen door het Israëlische leger gewaarschuwd en konden tijdig ontkomen.
In een geval raakten door rondvliegend puin en glas twee buren gewond, meldden ooggetuigen. Een raket vernielde het huis van de leider van de Volksverzetscomités in Beit Hanun in het noorden van het Palestijnse gebied aan de Middellandse Zee. In het gebouw werden volgens Israël wapens opgeslagen. In het tweede geval vuurde de Israëlische luchtmacht een raket af op de woning van een lid van de militante islamitische groep Hamas in Gaza-stad.

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/article506106.ece
(ANP)

Zelfs als ergens wapens liggen en de hoofdbewoner een terroristische hotshot is worden de bewoners dus nog gewaarschuwd alvorens de zaak platgegooid wordt.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:45
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T_ID schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:42 :
Ik vind het lastig om te geloven dat de Hezbollah iets als dit zou beginnen zonder groen licht van de grote baas. In het verleden is dat nooit zo geweest, en de Hezbollah weet nog steeds prima waar hun geld vandaan komt.

überhaupt, te zien aan zijn uitspraken is die journalist verre van objectief. Headlines in zijn eigen 'krant' gaan a la "The Root Causes, Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice" en "Assassinating the Peacekeepers".

Lees anders het artikel van Ad Bloemendaal eens dat ik eerder postte, want van de Palestinian Chronicle worden we niet wijzer.
wederom heb jij niets gezegd. Dus als jij het moeilijk kan geloven, dan zal het wel niet zo zijn. Tja, blijkbaar heb je kritiek op 1 punt en dan is het hele artikel opeens weer pro-palestijns. Dus head-lines geven de waarde aan van objectiviteit?
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:46
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T_ID schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:44 :
Overigens:

Israël bestookt huizen militanten in Gaza

GAZA - Israëlische gevechtstoestellen hebben in de nacht van zaterdag op zondag twee huizen van militante Palestijnen ...
in de Gazastrook onder vuur genomen. De bewoners van beide panden werden kort voor de aanvallen door het Israëlische leger gewaarschuwd en konden tijdig ontkomen.
In een geval raakten door rondvliegend puin en glas twee buren gewond, meldden ooggetuigen. Een raket vernielde het huis van de leider van de Volksverzetscomités in Beit Hanun in het noorden van het Palestijnse gebied aan de Middellandse Zee. In het gebouw werden volgens Israël wapens opgeslagen. In het tweede geval vuurde de Israëlische luchtmacht een raket af op de woning van een lid van de militante islamitische groep Hamas in Gaza-stad.

http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/article506106.ece
(ANP)

Zelfs als ergens wapens liggen en de hoofdbewoner een terroristische hotshot is worden de bewoners dus nog gewaarschuwd alvorens de zaak platgegooid wordt.
Lekker makkelijk he. Vluchten als de hele infrastructuur naar de knopen is.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:50
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:45 :
Dus head-lines geven de waarde aan van objectiviteit?
Als iemand een opiniestuk schrijft waarvan je de objectiviteit kan betwisten kijk je naar zijn overige werk. Als dat overige werk krantenkoppen a la "Zionistische bezetter eet baby's!!" is, dan ga ik uit van onbetrouwbaarheid.
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:46 :
Lekker makkelijk he. Vluchten als de hele infrastructuur naar de knopen is.
lol, ja, het is inderdaad erg lastig een blokje om te lopen.

We hebben het hier over Gaza in dit artikel, niet over Libanon.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:53
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T_ID schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:50 :
Als iemand een opiniestuk schrijft waarvan je de objectiviteit kan betwisten kijk je naar zijn overige werk. Als dat overige werk krantenkoppen a la "Zionistische bezetter eet baby's!!" is, dan ga ik uit van onbetrouwbaarheid.
lol, ja, het is inderdaad erg lastig een blokje om te lopen.

We hebben het hier over Gaza in dit artikel, niet over Libanon.
Nou dat zie ik niet bij zijn titels staan. Zijn titels vallen nog mee. Het lijkt meer op populaire headlines.

En niet gezien dat het Gaza was Maar het blijft natuurlijk erg makkelijk om de mensen eerst te waarschuwen en ze dan toch maar aan te vallen. Dat rechtvaardigt totaal niet de aanvallen van ISrael.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:54
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T_ID schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 00:15 :
De enige steun is tot nu toe de munitie die Amerika leverde. In 1973 werden Europese eenheden naar havens gereden om in geval van nood Israël te helpen, anno 2006 gebeurt dat niet meer. Kun je me daarom misschien uitleggen hoe dat een noemenswaardig effect heeft op de krachtmeting tussen het IDF en de Hezbollah?
Deze week nog: klik

Je mist de nodige achtergrondinformatie, waardoor gen redelijke discussie met je valt te voeren. Je zou je wat meer moeten inlezen over dit onderwerp.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:55
Gatara
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Love & Peace schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:54 :
Deze week nog: klik

Je mist de nodige achtergrondinformatie, waardoor gen redelijke discussie met je valt te voeren. Je zou je wat meer moeten inlezen over dit onderwerp.
T_ID zei toch echt "De enige steun is tot nu toe de munitie die Amerika leverde. "

Oud 30-07-2006, 11:55
Love & Peace
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hhendrikxx schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 00:14 :
Haar kant, onze kant, hun kant... van die begrippen moeten we eens af!
Wat heb jij een mooi hart. Ik benijd je.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:58
Love & Peace
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Gatara schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:55 :
T_ID zei toch echt "De enige steun is tot nu toe de munitie die Amerika leverde. "

Verkeerd gelezen.

Maar goed, daarnaast heeft Israel ook financiele hulp gehad, en dat weet jij ook.
Oud 30-07-2006, 11:58
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Gatara schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:55 :
T_ID zei toch echt "De enige steun is tot nu toe de munitie die Amerika leverde. "

maar hij bedoelde natuurlijk " munitie die Amerika leverde in 1973" . Ik merk trouwens hier dat iedereen zich altijd concentreert op bepaalde zinnen en de rest gewoon negeert. Het uit te context halen van de tekst lijkt hier een geboren afwijking.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 11:59
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Het "beste" leger ter wereld is weer eens op VN-ers aan het knallen, een flat met ruim 50 burgers is gedecimeerd.

Hoe lang valt nog vol te houden dat dit "recht op zelfverdediging" is?
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:01
Love & Peace
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:58 :
maar hij bedoelde natuurlijk " munitie die Amerika leverde in 1973" .
Dat dacht ik dus ook, maar er zit vervelend klein puntje tussen 'leverde' en 'in 1976', wat roet in het eten gooit.
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:02
Relief
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Love & Peace schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 13:01 :
Dat dacht ik dus ook, maar er zit vervelend klein puntje tussen 'leverde' en 'in 1976', wat roet in het eten gooit.
ja idd, maar als je de rest van de tekst leest dan bedoelt hij leverde in 1973.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 12:03
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Relief schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 13:02 :
ja idd, maar als je de rest van de tekst leest dan bedoelt hij leverde in 1973.
Nee hoor, daar begint hij over de europese steun in manmachten.
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:04
Relief
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Bloedbad

Arabische en Europese landen hebben zondag in harde bewoordingen gereageerd op de Israëlische bombardementen op de Libanese plaats Qana. De Franse president Jacques Chirac veroordeelde de actie scherp, aldus zijn kantoor in een verklaring.

In de Franse verklaring staat dat door het bloedbad in Qana meer dan ooit duidelijk is geworden dat er een onmiddellijk staakt-het-vuren moet komen. Ook paus Benedictus XVI riep op tot een bestand.

Buitensporig

De Britse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Margaret Beckett sprak van een "ontstellende" gebeurtenis. Ze wees erop dat Londen er bij Israël herhaaldelijk op heeft aangedrongen niet buitensporig te handelen.

Afschuwelijke misdaad

De Jordaanse koning Abdullah II repte van een "schandelijke schending van het internationaal recht" en een "afschuwelijke misdaad" die door Israëlische militairen is begaan.

De Egyptische president Hosni Mubarak noemde de bombardementen op Qana "onverantwoordelijk", aldus een verklaring van het Egyptische staatspersbureau MENA. Egypte en Jordanië onderhouden aanmerkelijk betere betrekkingen met Israël en de Verenigde Staten dan tal van andere landen in het Midden-Oosten.
Bron: nu.nl
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Oud 30-07-2006, 12:04
Love & Peace
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DetonatorDc schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 12:59 :
Het "beste" leger ter wereld is weer eens op VN-ers aan het knallen, een flat met ruim 50 burgers is gedecimeerd.

Hoe lang valt nog vol te houden dat dit "recht op zelfverdediging" is?
22 kinderen.
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:05
Relief
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Love & Peace schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 13:03 :
Nee hoor, daar begint hij over de europese steun in manmachten.
aha.
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Oud 30-07-2006, 12:06
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Love & Peace schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 13:04 :
22 kinderen.
Misschien ruimen ze preventief? Die kinderen zouden later felle Hezbollah strijders kunnen worden.
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:09
Relief
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DetonatorDc schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 13:06 :
Misschien ruimen ze preventief? Die kinderen zouden later felle Hezbollah strijders kunnen worden.
Tja je weet het maar nooit he. Als de kinderen niet weg willen na een waarschuwing, dan zijn het natuurlijk potentieele strijders!! Afmaken die zooi!!!111!
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Oud 30-07-2006, 12:11
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DetonatorDc schreef op 30-07-2006 @ 13:06 :
Misschien ruimen ze preventief? Die kinderen zouden later felle Hezbollah strijders kunnen worden.
Je hebt nog altijd kind soldaatjes
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:13
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Eigenlijk zijn die kinderen gewoon lui. Dat ze niet weggaan is een slappe lakse houding die niet te tolereren valt.
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:18
Sherpao
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Waar gaat dit gelul nou over?
Oud 30-07-2006, 12:18
Cartosa
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Wordt wel interessant, die blogpost die Gatara aanhaalde. Israel kan daar rustig het verdeel-en-heers spelletje van 1996 overdoen.

Dat Qana opnieuw de pineut is, dat is wel zielig, ik vernoemde het plaatsje 2 blz. terug.
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