Watchmen [Snyder, 2009]

[Dinalfos]

Trail0r!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93ChSPFBp5o

Ziet er beter uit dan ik had verwacht, eerlijk gezegd. En nu maar hopen dat Alan ook een beetje tevreden is....

[Carn]

Ben benieuwd; had al gelezen dat er veel gesneden gaat worden in de film.

[Carn]

Snyder is overigens wel erg sterk op visueel gebied. Ik vraag me af of ie net als bij 300 een bijna Frame-voor-Frame verfilming heeft gemaakt.

[Dinalfos]

Nou, dat laatste lijkt me sterk. Watchmen is niet alleen aanzienlijk langer dan 300 maar ook veel complexer en moeilijker verfilmbaar qua verhaal. Ik hoop op een shitload aan sequels.

[Carn]

van AICN:

Zack Snyder is in post production on his big screen adaptation of Watchmen, and is currently sitting on a three-hour superhero movie.

Quote:
“The main picture is nearing three hours long and I know I have a fight on my hands just with that,” Snyder told the New York Times.
And the eventual Ultimate Edition DVD version of the movie (think Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings extended editions on crack) will no doubt be over four and a half plus hours in length. More on that in a bit. Since a big screen adaptation of Watchmen was first announced, many fans of the original Alan Moore comic book mini-series wondered how Tales of the Black Freighter, the story-within-the-story, would be handled, if at all.

Back in February, Gerard Butler told Empire Magazine that he would be voicing the lead character in Black Freighter and that it will be animated in an anime style. I guess the original plan was to shoot the entire tie-in using a style similar to 300, employing green screens and computer generated locations. But the New York Times confirms that the budget was indeed too high (over $20 million), and that Warner Bros will be releasing a 100% animated Tale of the Black Freighter on DVD a mere five days after Watchmen hits theaters on March 6th 2008. How cool is that? Diane Nelson, president of Warner Premiere declined to say how much this animated feature would cost, but did reveal that it is budgeted for 30 percent to 50 percent higher than a typical direct-to-DVD effort. he DVD will also include a d0cumentary-style film called “Under the Hood” that will delve into the characters’ backstories.

Since the film adaptation was first announced, I wondered if such an R-rated non-mainstream superhero movie could really make it’s money back at the box office. And while I’m not discounting the film’s eventual opening weekend just yet, its now becoming more clear that Warner Bros has a long tail plan. While it’s a cool idea to release Black Freighter alongside the theatrical release, truth is it’s Warner Bros plans to make you reach into your pocket four separate times. They expect fans will buy a ticket to opening night, buy the “Tales of the Black Freighter” direct-todvd animated movie days later, followed by a limited feature DVD of the movie, and eventually an “ultimate edition” DVD, which will include tons of special features and have the two films edited together into one megamovie, just as it appears in the graphic novel.

Also, AICN has just posted a 1940 photo of The Minutemen, a team of superheroes which formed in 1939 and disbanded a decade later. The photo below features the classic olden day versions of Silk Spectre, Nite Owl, Captain Metropolis, Mothman, Silhouette, Comedian, Dollar Bill, and Hooded Justice.



en nog wat set/comic vergelijkingen.
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/04/06/...c-comparisons/

[Dinalfos]

Carn schreef:

van AICN:

and that Warner Bros will be releasing a 100% animated Tale of the Black Freighter

AWESOME

[Uice]

Dinalfos schreef:

Trail0r!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93ChSPFBp5o

Ziet er beter uit dan ik had verwacht, eerlijk gezegd. En nu maar hopen dat Alan ook een beetje tevreden is....

Natuurlijk niet. Waarschijnlijk gaat hij er niet eens naar kijken.

De nadruk die in de trailer op visuele actie wordt gelegd is pijnlijk. Het ziet eruit als een aardige actiefilm, maar de kans op een verfilming die recht doet aan het boek gaat voorbij. Gilliam had er waarschijnlijk meer van kunnen maken.

Ik vind Dr. Manhattan er trouwens nogal lame uitzien.

[Carn]

[Uice]

Ja, dat ziet er allemaal wel prima uit. Ik maak me vooral zorgen over het acteerwerk. Voor de karakters van Watchmen heb je goede acteurs nodig, en die zagen we in de vorige films van Snyder niet. Straks wordt het weer van dat irritante onrealistische over-the-topgedoe zoals in 300.

[m3tr01dm1nd3d]

Uice schreef:

Ja, dat ziet er allemaal wel prima uit. Ik maak me vooral zorgen over het acteerwerk. Voor de karakters van Watchmen heb je goede acteurs nodig, en die zagen we in de vorige films van Snyder niet. Straks wordt het weer van dat irritante onrealistische over-the-topgedoe zoals in 300.

maar als ik me niet vergis is de 300 comic toch ook al vrij over the top

Ik hoop maar niet dat het script/scenario ten koste gaat van de visuele stijl. Ik heb de graphic novel niet gelezen, dus hoe goed dat daar in elkaar steekt weet ik niet.

En die visuals zijn allemaal heel leuk en aardig, maar de kans bestaat dat het na 10 minuten alweer gaat vervelen. Immers, zo constant boeiend was 300 nou ook weer niet.

[Uice]

metroidminded schreef:

maar als ik me niet vergis is de 300 comic toch ook al vrij over the top

Watchmen zou zich ook wel voor zo'n bewerking kunnen lenen.

[Dinalfos]

Dat zou ongepast zijn, Watchmen is gewoon te serieus. 300 was inderdaad een simpel verhaaltje dat zichzelf niet al te serieus neemt. Watchmen neemt zichzelf daarentegen bloedserieus, hoewel er natuurlijk wel humor in zit.

En ik geloof niet dat zelfs Snyder het in z'n kop zou halen om van Watchmen een verkapte parodie te maken.

[Uice]

Dat denk ik ook niet, maar ik kan me goed voorstellen dat de dialogen op zo'n vervelende theatrale wijze voorgedragen worden, zoals in de meeste superheldenfilms.

Ben ik nou de enige op wie die trailer *geen* hypnotische euforische reactie heeft? Ik ben normaal wel vaak ontvankelijk voor hypes enzo maar wat ik in die trailers zie is een hoop dramatisch gedoe en special effects en luitjes in tackey outfits? Wat is er precies zo gaaf aan dan? Mis ik iets? Misschien komt het omdat ik de graphic novel niet ken. Doe mij Hellboy maar.

Gave posters dat wel

[m3tr01dm1nd3d]

Dinalfos schreef:

Dat zou ongepast zijn, Watchmen is gewoon te serieus. 300 was inderdaad een simpel verhaaltje dat zichzelf niet al te serieus neemt. Watchmen neemt zichzelf daarentegen bloedserieus, hoewel er natuurlijk wel humor in zit.

En ik geloof niet dat zelfs Snyder het in z'n kop zou halen om van Watchmen een verkapte parodie te maken.

zelfs snyder
alsof het een lamlul is, ben tot nu toe erg tevreden met wat hij heeft gedaan en de keuzes die hij heeft gemaakt hoor

[Uice]

Ja, maar Watchmen is iets totaal anders dan wat Snyder tot nu toe gemaakt heeft.

[Dinalfos]

metroidminded schreef:

zelfs snyder
alsof het een lamlul is, ben tot nu toe erg tevreden met wat hij heeft gedaan en de keuzes die hij heeft gemaakt hoor

Ben je Dawn of the Dead en 300 al vergeten?

[Carn]

eXo schreef:

Misschien komt het omdat ik de graphic novel niet ken.

To date, Watchmen remains the only graphic novel to win a Hugo Award, and is also the only graphic novel to appear on Time Magazine's 2005 list of "the 100 best English-language novels" published since the founding of the magazine in 1923.

ik zie een verband ja.

[Carn]

sweet.

[Uice]

Best jammer dat het weer grotendeels een tekenfilm wordt.

[m3tr01dm1nd3d]

Dinalfos schreef:

Ben je Dawn of the Dead en 300 al vergeten?

Beide erg vermakenlijk naar mijn mening

[Dinalfos]

metroidminded schreef:

Beide erg vermakenlijk naar mijn mening

Dat op zich wel, maar het ging mij vooral om de manier waarop hij bronmateriaal interpreteert.

Carn schreef:

To date, Watchmen remains the only graphic novel to win a Hugo Award, and is also the only graphic novel to appear on Time Magazine's 2005 list of "the 100 best English-language novels" published since the founding of the magazine in 1923.

ik zie een verband ja.

Ok ik zal me er 'ns in verdiepen.

[Str0nk]

Weet iemand waar ik deze 'grafic novel' kan kopen? Bij bol lijken ze niet de juiste editie aan te bieden?

Volgens mij wel hoor. Ik heb mijne besteld bij selexyz op het koningsplein in Amsterdam. Het duurde wel 3 weken voor ze hem binnen hadden. Ben 'm nu aan het lezen.

[Uice]

Str0nk schreef:

Weet iemand waar ik deze 'grafic novel' kan kopen? Bij bol lijken ze niet de juiste editie aan te bieden?

ABC in Amsterdam heeft hem vrijwel altijd in voorraad voor twintig euro.

[Dinalfos]

Je kan hem natuurlijk ook gewoon *Hiss! Spit!* downloaden *Hiss! Spit!*.

Net de graphic novel uitgelezen nog lang wachten

[Giles]

Posters zijn wel erg tof

[Carn]

[Carn]

Vind Veidt alleen wat te jong.

[Uice]

De kont van Silk Spectre is eigenlijk het meest overtuigende aan die posters. Kon ze niet gewoon haar rokje aanhouden?

Ik houd mijn hart vast.

En ze hebben het masker van Rorschach alvast vertiefd, zie ik

[Carn]

vertieft? ziet er wel gaaf uit in bewegende beelden, een constant veranderend patroon.

Nieuwe trailer overigens, vind m mwah.

[Carn]

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/watc...ml?showVideo=1

[Dinalfos]

Bovendien is de art direction erg in overeenstemming met de tekenstijl van moderne comics. De art van Watchmen is typisch jaren 80 en was wel aan iets van een update toe.

[Uice]

Die stem van Rorschach. Precies waar ik bang voor was. Theatrale Snyderbullshit. Als het zo gespeeld wordt blijft er niets over van de personages.

[Darko]

Ik dacht eerst dat je lekker aan het overdrijven was, maar fuck ja, die stem van Rorschach is te erg.

[Balthasar]

Net zo waardeloos als de stem van Batman in the Dark Knight.
Waardeloze soundtrack trouwens dit keer.

[Carn]

het gerucht is overigens 'no squiddy'

Carn schreef:

vertieft? ziet er wel gaaf uit in bewegende beelden, een constant veranderend patroon.

Nieuwe trailer overigens, vind m mwah.

Ik heb nog geen beeldmateriaal gezien, wat ik zei is gebaseerd op het plaatje van hierboven.

[Carn]

Greetings from over the pond…

On Friday I was lucky enough to attend what I believe was the first UK publicity event for Watchmen. They screened around 30 minutes of footage… if memory serves me correct this was the same three scenes that Moriarty reported on a while back… but the real points of interest came after the footage, where Zack Snyder & Dave Gibbons took the stage for a Q&A.

Before I dive into what was said & what shown I just thought I’d point out that I’ve read the graphic novel. I only read it for the first time around 12 months ago, but straight away it gripped me & stood out against almost everything else I had read. What struck me most was the sheer depth to it… the characters, the story, the history & the politics. Watchmen really is one of the most outstanding & rewarding novels that I’ve come across.

Zack introduced 3 segments of the film… the opening 10 minutes, Dr Manhattan on Mars & the rescuing of Rorschach. I know this footage has been covered in some detail on here before, but I just have to reiterate just how fantastic it all was.

What struck me the most was the feelings the scenes provoked, especially when you consider that they weren’t being played in order or with context. The segment of Dr Manhattan on Mars was possibly my favourite part of the novel, and the film perfectly captures its poetic rhythm. I had to almost pinch myself that I was actually seeing this on the Cinema… Manhattan narrating his life and considering the notion of time & existence. Everything in this scene worked… the visuals, acting, pacing & sound. I can imagine that in many hands this would have been exorcised from the script, but here it was in all its glory and it literally gave me goosebumps. This section was the perfect companion piece to the jailbreak, which was both exhilarating and exciting, a shot of pure adrenalin.

Best of all though was probably the opening scene, and in particular the title sequence. I know the titles have been lauded on here already, but I cannot stress enough how good they are. For those who don’t know, the titles basically provides a 6 minute history to the minutemen and the watchmen (as they are referred to in the film), all played out to the Bob Dylan classic ‘The Times They Are A-Changing’. I cannot think of a more creatively economical way that they could have done this… and it works perfectly to those who have read the novel as well as to those that are coming in cold. Seeing history being re-written infront of your eyes to fit in with the Watchmen universe is a great experience, and straight away makes you feel like you’re watching something special. I just wish I could watch it again now because there was so much detail to take in & so many bits that you can’t possibly take in on one viewing. And the choice of song… perfect.

After the footage Zack Snyder & Dave Gibbons took questions from the audience on stage, including one brilliantly dim guy who managed to insult 300 (a great way to kick things off). When discussing the film I thought Zack came across really well… quite a dry sense of humor and an obvious passion for the source material. Many of the questions fielded were fairly unremarkable, but there were some interesting bits which I’ve outlined below.

On being offered Watchmen:

Interestingly Zack talked about when he first received the call on Watchmen (I believe as he was editing 300). Apparently during that first conversation Warner Brothers told him about how they were going to modernize the story… no cold war, no 80s setting and no Richard Nixon. I think it’s important to acknowledge this image for a minute, especially when trying to debate the ins & outs of the upcoming adaptation. Now we don’t know what we have on our hands until March ’09 but everything so far strikes the right cord and I truly believe we could have something special… a Watchmen to live up to the novel. But that thought about what it could have been… a diluted imitation of a superior story… well it just makes me glad that Snyder got on board. People can, and probably will, nit pick this thing to death… but we’re going to get a film that is committed to the source material from a director that wants to bring the ‘unfilmable’ to life. The main thing I wanted from this was for it to feel like a Watchmen film. Remember that feeling when you watched Batman & Robin or LOEXG… that feeling like you were watching something you knew, but no longer recognized. Watchmen could have gone down this route… it could have lost it’s complexity, moral ambiguity and its soul… but it hasn’t. When Rorschach is on screen… well damn that’s Rorschach! Snyder has always insisted that he’s a massive fan of the graphic novel, and I really think this shines through in the footage that I saw.

He did also state about the initial pressure to bring this thing in as a PG-13, but that the studio has come around to the fact that it has to be an R (no doubt helped by the performance of 300).

The Squid: (Dave Gibbons reaction… ‘its not a squid, it’s a 5th dimensional being’)

Zack Snyder confirmed that the ending is the one seen in the recent test screenings. The ‘squid’ is definitely not in this thing… its not being hidden in a different ending… its gone… vanished… with the big calamari in the sky.

This has created a fair amount of debate for obvious reasons, but I have to say that I side with the filmmakers on this one. Zack came out with a good summary for its exclusion. He only has a finite amount of time to play this thing out in cinemas… roughly 2.5 hours. Now to include the squid would have meant sacrificing a lot of the character to story, there’s just not enough time to play it both ways. And Watchmen lives and dies by its characters… it’s the dilemmas that they face and the decisions they make… it’s what they come to learn about the world & their place within it… that helps make the novel what it is. The essence of the ending is still intact… the characters still go through more unless the same progressions that they did in the novel. At the end of the day the ‘squid’ is a means to an end… the filmmakers have gone down a slightly different route, but the overall picture is still the same.

Also it might not be something that fans want to consider, but this thing has to have a mass audience appeal and I don’t know if the majority of cinema-goers will buy the third act turning into Cloverfield 2. It sounds like Zack has gone into battle with the studio on a number of different things, and if the ‘squid’ is the sacrifice that needed to be made then so be it. I’d rather have a different mechanic within the films climax, then a PG-13 or modern day Watchmen. Dave Gibbons was in absolute support of this decision as well… he stated how this has been the best film project that he’s worked on to date & that the most important thing was to maintain the integrity of the graphic novel, something that has been done.

Whilst we’re on the ending…. They also confirmed that the final scene is the same as the novel with regards to Rorschach’s journal being found.

Watchmen & mainstream audiences

Zack was asked the question that many people are wondering ‘how will this play to unsuspecting audiences… do you think they are ready for it?’

He came out with something along the lines of…

‘People have got complacent. Sure they like to see something safe like Spiderman, but people are always waiting for it to be taken to new level. The Dark Knight was like a poke in the eye, but this will really shake their shit up’.

Now there’s no denying that Watchmen is a difficult sell, and I’m sure there will be a lot of people who just don’t ‘get it’… but it was reassuring to see how much faith Zack has in the ability of the source material to find an audience. He brought up Superman, saying ‘I always wondered if you had these powers, how far would you take it? I mean it’s all good flying around putting out fires, but wouldn’t you just go & grab all the political leaders, put them In a room, and force them to sort their shit out?’. To Snyder it seemed like Watchmen was all about that question… about how far Veidt was willing to take things & the impact this had on the other characters & their pre-conceptions of heroism. It turned the idea of the villain onto its head & into a moral dilemma. How do you define the term villain? Is someone a villain because of a course of action? Or could inaction, the failure to take responsibility, be just as critical to the world en mass? Zack seems to be hoping that the questions & the ambiguities of Watchmen play well with audiences, that they won’t mind having their intelligence tackled as they eat their popcorn. We will have to wait until next March to see if that happens, but I really hope that he’s right.

The DVD

Snyder also discussed the DVD at some length. As well as the theatrical cut there is to be a 3.5 hour version that incorporates the novels ‘comic within a comic’, The Black Freighter. This will take the form of animated segments ala Kill Bill.

He also noted that they are creating a documentary based around Hollis Mason’s ‘Under The Hood’ memoirs for the DVD release.

In many respects I’m looking forward to the DVD more then the film because it’s going to be such a rewarding experience having the full spectrum of the novel brought to life.

I know you can’t judge a film from 30 minutes of footage and there is a chance that the filmmakers could drop the ball, but from what I saw this thing is in good hands. It really did feel like the pages of the novel were appearing before me on the cinema screen & the emotions that I felt when I read Watchmen were the same ones I experienced in the Cinema on Friday. It doesn’t matter what I or anyone else says… this thing will be debated through & through such is the level of fan-dom. I’ve tried to refrain from too much hyperbole in this write up… but to hell with it… I think Synder’s Watchmen is going to be incredible. In years to come when you’ve watched it umpteen times on DVD I don’t think you’re going to look back and think of things like the ‘squid’… I think you’re just going to remember how much it kicked your arse when you saw it come to life in the Cinema. I can’t wait… roll on March.

[Carn]

He's been having great fun choosing the period-specific soundtrack which will incorporate a lot of the songs listed in the graphic novel as well as some others. "That part is super fun, I love the exercise of having to go through the book and find songs from pop culture that fits scenes" he says. One song that gets a brief inclusion is 1984's '99 Luftballons' by Nena which he had to justify to one clueless onlooker - "someone said to me like 'I don't get why you put that song in the movie', and I said 'you know that song's about these red balloons getting away and causing nuclear war' and they're like 'Oh...huh'."

Other songs in the film includes more Dylan numbers like Desolation Row and All Along the Watchtower, Simon & Garfunkel's Sounds of Silence, Nat King Cole's Unforgettable, and at least one number by Nina Simone. He thinks after the movie opens the soundtrack inclusions and exclusions will be among the more debated topics. Even he had to pass on some songs he hoped to add - "It's not so much that I didn't want to put them in, it's just that they weren't practical".

Much like the Dr. Manhattan origin scene is an extended montage of the character's back story with a voice over, the Comedian's funeral is the same and take place about an hour into the film. "We go with everyone - you go with Dan to the riots, Adrian to crimebusters headquarters, the Comedian in Vietnam with Manhattan, you know" he says. Snyder's son, who played the young Leonidas in the early scenes of "300", also cameos as a young Rorschach.

[Carn]

What's the final runtime? "I'm hoping 2 hours 42 minutes, with credits." That theatrical version however is just one of three versions of the film planned for the eventual DVD & Blu-ray release. There's also a three hour director's cut of the film with "the scenes all fleshed out", and the 'Black Freighter' version which will combine that Director's Cut with the 'Black Freighter' short film that will clock in at three-and-a-half hours. How the Black Freighter version will be incorporated and packaged is still undecided - "For me 'Black Freighter' needs its own box, it's packaged with like cool props from the movie and supplemental material. It's like this big thing you put on your shelf and go 'that's f**king Black Freighter' you know."

[Carn]

Spoiler

A few online fanboys have been disappointed by reports from the test screening of the changed ending. Specifically a key moment in the graphic novel revolves around the disastrous repercussions of a 'giant alien squid' being teleported into New York City, an event that is changed in the movie (there's still a disaster but no squid). Snyder says "The fans, god love 'em, they're all up in arms about the squid. What they should be up in arms about are things like shooting the pregnant woman, 'God is real and he's American', whether THAT's in the movie. That's my point of view, maybe I'm crazy." He does admit that the ending scenes with the main characters remain, as does the 'moral imperative' of the comic's ending.

What about talk he did some 'squid' stuff in pre-production? "Well... I don't want to say yes or no (laughs). The squid was not in the movie when I got the script, the squid was never in any draft that I saw. My point is only that there was this elegant solution to the squid problem that I kind of embraced. I'm a fan of the thing as much as anyone, I was saying what are we going to do about this before I even read the script." Was that solution multiple atomic explosions as some have said? "I won't say exactly but... Dr. Manhattan has a certain energy signature, it's clearly his thing...so you know." He also shot down reports of multiple endings - they only filmed the one.

[Carn]

As WATCHMEN slowly arrives, we're getting some more information on the film's runtime through director Zack Snyder and his wife, producer Deborah Snyder, who says "We're getting really close... We're at two hours and thirty five minutes." However, there will also be a director's cut version of the film that features the movie within a movie, TALES OF THE BLACK FREIGHTER.

"The Black Freighter version of the movie that we're working on--which has the ins and outs of the Black Freighter comic book woven through it, with an animated version of the Black Freighter--will be about three hours and 40 minutes... So there's a huge epic version of Watchmen, which will probably come out after the movie's theatrical release, for hardcore [fans]."

[Carn]

Wat nieuw beeldmateriaal

[Carn]

Warners, Fox settle over 'Watchmen'
Under the agreement, Fox will not be co-distributor

By Matthew Belloni and Borys Kit

Jan 15, 2009, 08:25 PM ET

Updated: Jan 15, 2009, 08:41 PM ET
hr/photos/stylus/66547-watchmen_341x182.jpg

"Watchmen"
Geeks can rejoice.

Warner Bros. and Fox have resolved their dispute over "Watchmen," with the studios scheduled to present a settlement to Judge Gary Feess this morning and request that the case be dismissed.

Terms of the agreement were not disclosed, but the deal is said to involve a sizable cash payment to Fox and a percentage of the film's boxoffice grosses; Fox will not be a co-distributor on the film, nor will it co-own the "Watchmen" property, but it will share in revenue derived from it. The studios released a joint statement last night.

"Warner Bros. acknowledges that Fox acted in good faith in bringing its claims, which were asserted prior to the start of principal photography," the statement read. "Fox acknowledges that Warner Bros. acted in good faith defending against those claims."

Fox sued Warners in February, claiming copyright infringement based on agreements the studio had with producer Larry Gordon. Feess ruled Dec. 24 that Gordon did not secure proper rights to "Watchmen" from Fox before shopping the project and setting it up at Warners.

Feess' decision prompted settlement talks to heat up because Warners faced the prospect of an injunction stopping its March 6 release of the $130 million comic book adaptation.

Gordon is not a party to the case, but Warners is said to be after the producer and his attorneys to reimburse the studio for costs of the settlement. During the litigation, Gordon's then-attorney admitted that he negotiated the producer's 1994 separation from Fox without knowing about a 1991 agreement on which Fox based its lawsuit.

The showdown between studios became particularly nasty during recent weeks, with Gordon and the film's other producer, Lloyd Levin, lashing out at Fox for making a claim on the film.

But with the dispute settled, the statement took a positive tone: "Warner Bros. and Fox, like all 'Watchmen' fans, look forward with great anticipation to this film's March 6 release in theaters."

[Carn]